BCB England football team thread

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the masked man
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby the masked man » 16 Oct 2018, 09:29

The first Spain goal was set up by Pickford mishandling an easy ball. He then made a complete hash of a back pass and should have been sent off for fouling a Spanish player who was about to score.

These were schoolboy errors. You cannot do this in international football.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Toby » 16 Oct 2018, 09:59

On balance though, he had a great game and contributed significantly to the win. Southgate has set up his side to take risks playing out from the back.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Darkness_Fish » 16 Oct 2018, 10:20

Why did I choose to watch the Croatia game, and skip this one?
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Re: BCB England football team threadi

Postby Toby » 16 Oct 2018, 11:32

Given the paucity of experience in the side it was a terrific result. Chilwell, Gomez and Winks had less than 10 caps between them, but all played very well. Gomez in particular I reckon will be England captain soon; he’s the first England defender since Ferdinand or Campbell to have that physical presence and speed necessary at this level.

This feels like a more significant achievement than the semis of the World Cup. As a psychological exorcism, in turning over ghosts of previous performances, winning a penalty shootout and essentially overachieving, the World Cup was an important step. However, the reality was that we failed to beat any team of real worth. Going to Spain and winning comfortably will be a huge confidence boost to both the manager and his players. Well done Gareth Southgate.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Perpendicular » 16 Oct 2018, 12:19

the masked man wrote:The first Spain goal was set up by Pickford mishandling an easy ball. He then made a complete hash of a back pass and should have been sent off for fouling a Spanish player who was about to score.

These were schoolboy errors. You cannot do this in international football.


Whilst I think it's wrong to focus on the negatives after such a brilliant victory, Pickford is certainly a concern. A pumped-up, barrel-chested Joe Hart-esque character with a huge arse who is a weak link in what is looking like an England defence with promise. Unfortunately, he is Southgate's first choice and it will only take the inevitable catastrophic error at a major finals to dislodge him.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Toby » 16 Oct 2018, 12:33

Do you think there is a better keeper than Pickford right now? I mean, no-one can pass or distribute the ball better than him. Butland is in no man's land, Hart is probably a no go and Bettinelli probably not experienced enough yet. I share the concerns that he is going to get caught out at some point, but the positives seem to outweigh the negatives right now.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Perpendicular » 16 Oct 2018, 12:54

Toby wrote:Do you think there is a better keeper than Pickford right now? I mean, no-one can pass or distribute the ball better than him.


The passing and distribution skills of a keeper is becoming a bore. Give me a reliable shot-stopping goalie any day. I'd go with Pope, once fit again. In the meantime, Pickford would be more effective bending over in front of goal and reducing the target, rather than playing silly buggers trying to be an outfield player.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby The Modernist » 16 Oct 2018, 13:49

Toby wrote:Do you think there is a better keeper than Pickford right now? I mean, no-one can pass or distribute the ball better than him. Butland is in no man's land, Hart is probably a no go and Bettinelli probably not experienced enough yet. I share the concerns that he is going to get caught out at some point, but the positives seem to outweigh the negatives right now.


I think you overhype his abilities quite frankly. He's not that great with the ball to his feet and he should've cost England a goal last night with some of his antics.
I'm happy for him to remain as number one for now, but let's not get carried away.

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Re: BCB England football team threadi

Postby The Modernist » 16 Oct 2018, 13:55

Toby wrote:Given the paucity of experience in the side it was a terrific result. Chilwell, Gomez and Winks had less than 10 caps between them, but all played very well. Gomez in particular I reckon will be England captain soon; he’s the first England defender since Ferdinand or Campbell to have that physical presence and speed necessary at this level.

This feels like a more significant achievement than the semis of the World Cup. As a psychological exorcism, in turning over ghosts of previous performances, winning a penalty shootout and essentially overachieving, the World Cup was an important step. However, the reality was that we failed to beat any team of real worth. Going to Spain and winning comfortably will be a huge confidence boost to both the manager and his players. Well done Gareth Southgate.


It's a boost, but once again you're getting too carried away on the basis of one result. It was hardly a comfortable win as Spain were creating numerous opportunities in that second half. Let's not forget that Spain themselves are rebuilding and are as inexperienced as England. But Southgate's got the right ideas and is making good calls, the change to 4-3-3 being a particularly good one.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Toby » 16 Oct 2018, 14:29

Spain lost their first competitive match at home for 15 years. Yes, they are obviously a side in transition, but they are still formidable. Of course, to go and win in France competitively is probably the peak outside of a tournament, but I think you’re looking at this negatively. It was a terrific result whichever way you look at it, particularly given, as I’ve already said, the age of this side. Naturally, consistency at this level would be useful, but most England fans would look at 2018 as a year when their team began making positive progress.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Toby » 16 Oct 2018, 14:33

I will say that De Gea looks shot to pieces at the moment in terms of confidence.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby the masked man » 16 Oct 2018, 14:41

It could have been a very different story had Pickford’s fouling been noticed by a frankly poor referee. Down to ten men, England probably would have crumbled.

The defence did look solid and England played brilliant counter-attacking football in the first half, though. There’s the seeds of a good side there. Hopefully Sancho will turn out to be as good as his reputation suggests too before long.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Diamond Dog » 16 Oct 2018, 15:11

the masked man wrote:It could have been a very different story had Pickford’s fouling been noticed by a frankly poor referee. Down to ten men, England probably would have crumbled.



You feel compelled to do this all the time Andrew, don't you? No matter what, you have to find a 'baddie' to vent your spleen about. Obviously Pickford was your guy last night, next time it will be someone else (just like it was last time and the time before that).

It's getting old mate.
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby PENK » 16 Oct 2018, 15:40

To be honest I thought Rodrigo pulled Pickford back first, so it should have been an England free kick rather than a penalty.

Doesn’t excuse the brainfart that led to the incident, of course, but overall Pickford looks a very good keeper: a fine stopper with presence who is comfortable on the ball. You can’t ask for more from a relatively inexperienced keeper who’s still 5-6 years from the age at which he might be expected to peak.
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby The Modernist » 16 Oct 2018, 18:33

Toby wrote:Spain lost their first competitive match at home for 15 years. Yes, they are obviously a side in transition, but they are still formidable.


Although they haven't had an effective defence for about 4 years. Teams exploit their high line time and time again.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby The Modernist » 16 Oct 2018, 18:35

PENK wrote:To be honest I thought Rodrigo pulled Pickford back first, so it should have been an England free kick rather than a penalty.

Doesn’t excuse the brainfart that led to the incident, of course, but overall Pickford looks a very good keeper: a fine stopper with presence who is comfortable on the ball. You can’t ask for more from a relatively inexperienced keeper who’s still 5-6 years from the age at which he might be expected to peak.


I must admit I share Perpendicular's concern with him. He still comes across as rash and lacking in judgement to me, I'm far from convinced, but hopefully he'll mature and grow into the role.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby The Modernist » 16 Oct 2018, 18:45

Toby wrote:Spain lost their first competitive match at home for 15 years. Yes, they are obviously a side in transition, but they are still formidable. Of course, to go and win in France competitively is probably the peak outside of a tournament, but I think you’re looking at this negatively. It was a terrific result whichever way you look at it, particularly given, as I’ve already said, the age of this side. Naturally, consistency at this level would be useful, but most England fans would look at 2018 as a year when their team began making positive progress.


I'd say consistency is not just "useful" but the only benchmark of how good a team is. It is only when a team puts together a string of results against top opposition that you can say they've moved up into being a top team themselves. One off results, especially in what is essentially a friendly, don't mean a great deal. But it is a very good start for England and builds on what was achieved in the summer, I've not disagreed about that.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Diamond Dog » 16 Oct 2018, 19:33

The Modernist wrote: One off results, especially in what is essentially a friendly, don't mean a great deal.


Germany 1 England 5 - and that was a World Cup Qualifier. That led us to losing to a ten man Brazil in the QF's, didn't it?
There really isn't any need for the hype today - fine result, great that we're talking positively about the national team again, but let's keep things in perspective, I agree.
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Lord Rother » 16 Oct 2018, 19:36

PENK wrote:To be honest I thought Rodrigo pulled Pickford back first, so it should have been an England free kick rather than a penalty.

Doesn’t excuse the brainfart that led to the incident, of course, but overall Pickford looks a very good keeper: a fine stopper with presence who is comfortable on the ball. You can’t ask for more from a relatively inexperienced keeper who’s still 5-6 years from the age at which he might be expected to peak.


Spot on.

Pickford bashing is frankly ridiculous at this stage and to suggest he should have been sent off is laughable seeing as he was fouled first and recovered brilliantly from his admittedly stupid mistake.

People learn through the mistakes they make.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Perpendicular » 16 Oct 2018, 20:01

Lord Rother wrote:his admittedly stupid mistake.


BINGO!

Pickford is a liability that will undoubtedly unravel on this thread. Please feel free to quote me when time comes to pass.