World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Geezee » 22 Jun 2018, 11:13

Toby wrote:Anyone else think Russia are on something? 3 of the top 5 players in terms of distance covered are Russian. FIFA will do nothing of course...


why wouldn't they?
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Rayge » 22 Jun 2018, 11:14

Because of my distaste for Sky and indeed for tiki-tacky or whatever it's called, I've probably only seen Messi play a dozen times over the last decade or so, mostly for the national side, and while I wouldn't dream of arguing with all those who've seen a lot more, the fact remains that I've never seen him play particularly well, let alone at pantheon level, and, with my predilection for magical thinking, I'm wondering whether I'm jinxing him. Whatever, I'll definitely be watching the last match, and hoping that Nigeria get a result.

And that the Ticos give The Neymar Show a bloody nose.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Darkness_Fish » 22 Jun 2018, 11:43

never/ever wrote:Jesus! Are you lot so keen to get Jimbo involved here too?

And here comes Putin-bot-3000... :P
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Goat Boy » 22 Jun 2018, 12:01

Rayge wrote:Because of my distaste for Sky and indeed for tiki-tacky or whatever it's called, I've probably only seen Messi play a dozen times over the last decade or so, mostly for the national side, and while I wouldn't dream of arguing with all those who've seen a lot more, the fact remains that I've never seen him play particularly well, let alone at pantheon level, and, with my predilection for magical thinking, I'm wondering whether I'm jinxing him. Whatever, I'll definitely be watching the last match, and hoping that Nigeria get a result.


*general comment* He dragged the last team to the final and was player of the tournament. It was still lacking the magic of Maradona in 86 but it should have put some of the criticism to bed regarding Messi and the national team. *general comment*

The world cup isn't the barometer of greatness it once was and I think most people accept that these days but he has had plenty moments of brilliance for the national side even if he hasn't dominated a world cup like Maradona did but then who has? It's unfair to judge him by that but that's what people do of course.

This particular Argentinian team is the worst I can remember. In the first game they were not tactically set up to go through Iceland which left Messi trying to penetrate a packed centre of the pitch with predictably frustrating results. Last night was even worse and he really had little or nothing to work with the whole match.

I'm not a fan of the Argentinian national side but it was sad seeing him last night. If this is the end, and surely it is (he'll be 35 by the time of the next one) then it was not a fitting way for him to (almost) bow out (assuming they go home). He deserves better.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby never/ever » 22 Jun 2018, 12:08

It's a good assessment, GB. The one thing I am trying to determine in Messi's demeanor was if he was tired or dispirited... there hardly was any vigour in his behavior and he looked genuinely broken after the second goal.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby PENK » 22 Jun 2018, 12:25

Just for the record:

Maradona won one World Cup, 2 Serie A titles, one Argentinian title, a UEFA Cup and a Spanish Cup. He never won the Ballon D’Or.

Messi has four Champions League titles, nine La Ligas, several domestic cups and five World Player of the Year awards/Ballons D’Or. He has more than twice as many international goals as Maradona and his scoring rate is over 50% better.

(Ronaldo has one European Championship, five Champions League titles, three Premier League titles, two La Ligas, several domestic cups and five World Player of the Year awards/Ballons D’Or.)
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Goat Boy » 22 Jun 2018, 12:41

Only European players were eligible for the Ballon D'Or prior to 1995.
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Jimbo wrote:I will read your link but it seems you only read my poor synopsis and not the article, otherwise you''d say more than just insult my cred


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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Toby » 22 Jun 2018, 12:42

Jonathan Wilson made the observation that having Messi in the side neutralises all the other quality that Argentina have. They expect him to create stuff. It's a problem that I feel all teams with "star" players have, when the weight of expectation both on and off the pitch weighs in their shoulders.

With Ronaldo and Portugal it feels like a humdrum side in comparison is lifted by his presence. They have some quality in Bernardo Silva but him aside, it's a workman-like team. With Messi missing, Argentina just looked totally clueless.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby PENK » 22 Jun 2018, 12:44

Goat Boy wrote:Only European players were eligible for the Ballon D'Or prior to 1995.


Well he still didn’t win it did he!
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby PENK » 22 Jun 2018, 12:47

Anyway Neymar’s hair.

Copehead wrote:I have met Gruff Rhys - although he claimed he wasn't and that he couldn't speak Welsh, as I spoke to him in Welsh, but it was him lying bastard.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby PENK » 22 Jun 2018, 12:57

Toby wrote:Jonathan Wilson made the observation that having Messi in the side neutralises all the other quality that Argentina have. They expect him to create stuff. It's a problem that I feel all teams with "star" players have, when the weight of expectation both on and off the pitch weighs in their shoulders.

With Ronaldo and Portugal it feels like a humdrum side in comparison is lifted by his presence. They have some quality in Bernardo Silva but him aside, it's a workman-like team. With Messi missing, Argentina just looked totally clueless.


Also worth pointing out that Messi was straitjacketed by a smart, disciplined and tough Croatian defence and midfield, and simply crowded out by Iceland. Ronaldo was handed space and soft goals by a messy Spain leaving themselves repeatedly open on the counter. He did take the free kick magnificently, while Messi missed that penalty against Iceland.

Go back four years and Messi inspired his team to the final (where he looked totally knackered) while Ronaldo flopped out in the group stage.

They both are and have been ludicrously great footballers but the modern game has no space for one-man teams. Portugal are very workmanlike but much more solid and better organised than Argentina and that’s why they are in a much stronger position.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby PENK » 22 Jun 2018, 13:02

You know when World Cups got rubbish? When they started this business of making teams wear their away kits even when there was no clash.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Goat Boy » 22 Jun 2018, 13:17

World cups, like music, were better in the 70s and 80s
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Toby » 22 Jun 2018, 13:35

They were, but this one is intriguing so far.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby PENK » 22 Jun 2018, 14:03

This one has been really good so far. A couple of classic games, a couple of upsets, a couple of breakout stars, general positive vibes.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Darkness_Fish » 22 Jun 2018, 14:51

Goat Boy wrote:World cups, like music, were better in the 70s and 80s

Image
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby fange » 22 Jun 2018, 14:54

It took a while for Brazil to wake up...
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Geezee » 22 Jun 2018, 14:56

PENK wrote:
They both are and have been ludicrously great footballers but the modern game has no space for one-man teams.


Not sure football has ever had space for one-man teams.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Darkness_Fish » 22 Jun 2018, 14:58

Surely that fake crying in the centre circle thing is worth a lifetime ban?
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Geezee » 22 Jun 2018, 15:02

Goat Boy wrote:
I'm not a fan of the Argentinian national side but it was sad seeing him last night. If this is the end, and surely it is (he'll be 35 by the time of the next one) then it was not a fitting way for him to (almost) bow out (assuming they go home). He deserves better.


I don't quite get this. As much as I admire Messi, he was terrible last night and don't understand why he "deserves" better, as if the team around him aren't fit to be around him. In my mind, he wasn't fit to be around them either. If anything, he probably deserved to be sent off for his petulant reaction to a tackle on him. You could tell the referee completely bottled it (in a game that I thought the ref otherwise managed pretty well in almost impossible circumstances considering the amount of playacting and dirty tricks).
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