World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby PENK » 22 Jun 2018, 12:25

Just for the record:

Maradona won one World Cup, 2 Serie A titles, one Argentinian title, a UEFA Cup and a Spanish Cup. He never won the Ballon D’Or.

Messi has four Champions League titles, nine La Ligas, several domestic cups and five World Player of the Year awards/Ballons D’Or. He has more than twice as many international goals as Maradona and his scoring rate is over 50% better.

(Ronaldo has one European Championship, five Champions League titles, three Premier League titles, two La Ligas, several domestic cups and five World Player of the Year awards/Ballons D’Or.)
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Goat Boy » 22 Jun 2018, 12:41

Only European players were eligible for the Ballon D'Or prior to 1995.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Toby » 22 Jun 2018, 12:42

Jonathan Wilson made the observation that having Messi in the side neutralises all the other quality that Argentina have. They expect him to create stuff. It's a problem that I feel all teams with "star" players have, when the weight of expectation both on and off the pitch weighs in their shoulders.

With Ronaldo and Portugal it feels like a humdrum side in comparison is lifted by his presence. They have some quality in Bernardo Silva but him aside, it's a workman-like team. With Messi missing, Argentina just looked totally clueless.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby PENK » 22 Jun 2018, 12:44

Goat Boy wrote:Only European players were eligible for the Ballon D'Or prior to 1995.


Well he still didn’t win it did he!
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby PENK » 22 Jun 2018, 12:47

Anyway Neymar’s hair.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby PENK » 22 Jun 2018, 12:57

Toby wrote:Jonathan Wilson made the observation that having Messi in the side neutralises all the other quality that Argentina have. They expect him to create stuff. It's a problem that I feel all teams with "star" players have, when the weight of expectation both on and off the pitch weighs in their shoulders.

With Ronaldo and Portugal it feels like a humdrum side in comparison is lifted by his presence. They have some quality in Bernardo Silva but him aside, it's a workman-like team. With Messi missing, Argentina just looked totally clueless.


Also worth pointing out that Messi was straitjacketed by a smart, disciplined and tough Croatian defence and midfield, and simply crowded out by Iceland. Ronaldo was handed space and soft goals by a messy Spain leaving themselves repeatedly open on the counter. He did take the free kick magnificently, while Messi missed that penalty against Iceland.

Go back four years and Messi inspired his team to the final (where he looked totally knackered) while Ronaldo flopped out in the group stage.

They both are and have been ludicrously great footballers but the modern game has no space for one-man teams. Portugal are very workmanlike but much more solid and better organised than Argentina and that’s why they are in a much stronger position.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby PENK » 22 Jun 2018, 13:02

You know when World Cups got rubbish? When they started this business of making teams wear their away kits even when there was no clash.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Goat Boy » 22 Jun 2018, 13:17

World cups, like music, were better in the 70s and 80s
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Toby » 22 Jun 2018, 13:35

They were, but this one is intriguing so far.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby PENK » 22 Jun 2018, 14:03

This one has been really good so far. A couple of classic games, a couple of upsets, a couple of breakout stars, general positive vibes.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Darkness_Fish » 22 Jun 2018, 14:51

Goat Boy wrote:World cups, like music, were better in the 70s and 80s

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby fange » 22 Jun 2018, 14:54

It took a while for Brazil to wake up...
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Geezee » 22 Jun 2018, 14:56

PENK wrote:
They both are and have been ludicrously great footballers but the modern game has no space for one-man teams.


Not sure football has ever had space for one-man teams.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Darkness_Fish » 22 Jun 2018, 14:58

Surely that fake crying in the centre circle thing is worth a lifetime ban?
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Geezee » 22 Jun 2018, 15:02

Goat Boy wrote:
I'm not a fan of the Argentinian national side but it was sad seeing him last night. If this is the end, and surely it is (he'll be 35 by the time of the next one) then it was not a fitting way for him to (almost) bow out (assuming they go home). He deserves better.


I don't quite get this. As much as I admire Messi, he was terrible last night and don't understand why he "deserves" better, as if the team around him aren't fit to be around him. In my mind, he wasn't fit to be around them either. If anything, he probably deserved to be sent off for his petulant reaction to a tackle on him. You could tell the referee completely bottled it (in a game that I thought the ref otherwise managed pretty well in almost impossible circumstances considering the amount of playacting and dirty tricks).
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Geezee » 22 Jun 2018, 15:12

PENK wrote:This one has been really good so far. A couple of classic games, a couple of upsets, a couple of breakout stars, general positive vibes.


I'd agree. And despite whatever DF thinks, to me VAR is a great addition - including showing up Neymar just now. Yes, it's not a smooth process and mistakes have been made, but that's inevitable with a major new change like this. It's a huge step in the right direction, that should have been taken 25 years ago.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Goat Boy » 22 Jun 2018, 15:23

Well the team aren't fit to be around him! That's the cold hard truth. I think a player of that stature deserves to bow out of the world cup stage (if that does happen) in better circumstances than this. I'd like to see him in a knockout game against one of the big boys, you know?

I'm soft like that I guess
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Darkness_Fish » 22 Jun 2018, 16:06

Geezee wrote:I'd agree. And despite whatever DF thinks, to me VAR is a great addition - including showing up Neymar just now. Yes, it's not a smooth process and mistakes have been made, but that's inevitable with a major new change like this. It's a huge step in the right direction, that should have been taken 25 years ago.

If mistakes have been made (and there have been more mistakes than corrections), then the technology/process isn't ready or suitable, and it should not be crapping all over the sports' showpiece event.

I can't imagine it would've been a great implementation 25 years ago, either, with 15 refs in full kit trying to work a VCR with a cathode-ray set on a trolley.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Lord Rother » 22 Jun 2018, 17:19

Undoubtedly it is flawed but VAR is a great addition to the game as it stamps out some of the incorrect decisions, particularly when exposing cheats.

But it really beats me why they haven’t worked out all the different scenarios and given detailed instructions as to why / when / how it should be used, plus when a decision should be overturned and when not.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Toby » 22 Jun 2018, 17:31

Great goal by Musa. Helps Argentina massively if Nigeria win.