World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

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The Modernist
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby The Modernist » 18 Jun 2018, 22:27

Diamond Dog wrote:
The Modernist wrote:I actually thought Henderson had a decent game. His long passing was Kroos like at times. He did tire noticeably in the second half though. His problem is he's got Lingard playing alongside him and he's just not a midfielder. He's having to carry things on his own.



Which is why Dier is the better bet. He will realise his role is to protect the back three. The wing backs and midfield three are there to create chances, for Kane particularly. And he won't give the ball away trying to be Platini.


You have to have someone advancing from the centre circle Pete! To be honest I think the system's a bit fucked but Southgate is wedded to it. But I think midfield will be the area that comes back to haunt England.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby The Modernist » 18 Jun 2018, 22:29

Darkness_Fish wrote:Sterling gets dispossessed often, and misses easy chances. But he's the only one who'll take a direct route through the middle, and take players on. .


That's what he's meant to give you yes, but he very rarely does it. He's living on his reputation

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Diamond Dog » 18 Jun 2018, 22:35

The Modernist wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:
The Modernist wrote:I actually thought Henderson had a decent game. His long passing was Kroos like at times. He did tire noticeably in the second half though. His problem is he's got Lingard playing alongside him and he's just not a midfielder. He's having to carry things on his own.



Which is why Dier is the better bet. He will realise his role is to protect the back three. The wing backs and midfield three are there to create chances, for Kane particularly. And he won't give the ball away trying to be Platini.


You have to have someone advancing from the centre circle Pete! To be honest I think the system's a bit fucked but Southgate is wedded to it. But I think midfield will be the area that comes back to haunt England.



But the one thing you cannot do there is lose the ball, G. And Henderson can't help himself - he gets these mad delusions of grandeur and decides to spray a 50 yard pass somewhere. Anywhere. It doesn't matter - we always end up losing possession.

His role (thatrole) is to be the conduit between defence and attack. Simple as that. Get the ball, move it quickly and accurately to the players in your team that can play. Henderson thinks he's better than that, Dier doesn't.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby The Modernist » 18 Jun 2018, 22:38

Darkness_Fish wrote: Bombing down the wings isn't going to work much for England, because we don't play with an old-fashioned English centre-forward, and that's all that Rashford will do, cross it to some brick shithouse of a defender. .


Your understanding of football is even worse than your music taste! Having a player who will take on a defender, beat him and get in the penalty box to put in a dangerous low cross is precisely how England can get goals. And he has the confidence to do it as he's shown numerous times now.
Without his invention and flair England are going to be very reliant on set pieces for goals because that invention and flair is not going to come from Alli and Sterling.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Diamond Dog » 18 Jun 2018, 22:38

The Modernist wrote:
Darkness_Fish wrote:Sterling gets dispossessed often, and misses easy chances. But he's the only one who'll take a direct route through the middle, and take players on. .


That's what he's meant to give you yes, but he very rarely does it. He's living on his reputation


No goal in nearly 3 years at this level. He can charge through the middle as much as he wants - he's just not good enough at top level.

He is being masked by the stunning players around him at Man City. Next season they'll find a better more clinical update and Sterling will be history.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby The Modernist » 18 Jun 2018, 22:38

Goat Boy wrote:Rashford is the only England player who is showing any flair and willingness to go past players. The opening 20 minutes or so was encouraging but the lack of creativity really showed in the 2nd half I felt. England were tiring but they looked very pedestrian. That's when you need players to step up and do something and the only players who did that were the subs.


Spot on.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Diamond Dog » 18 Jun 2018, 22:41

Indeed. He has an X factor the rest don;t have.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby The Modernist » 18 Jun 2018, 22:46

Diamond Dog wrote:

But the one thing you cannot do there is lose the ball, G. And Henderson can't help himself - he gets these mad delusions of grandeur and decides to spray a 50 yard pass somewhere. Anywhere. It doesn't matter - we always end up losing possession.

His role (thatrole) is to be the conduit between defence and attack. Simple as that. Get the ball, move it quickly and accurately to the players in your team that can play. Henderson thinks he's better than that, Dier doesn't.


But you need your central midfielder to do more than just play simple balls, I thought he was spreading the play quite well. Plus he's a much better athlete than Dier who is quite ponderous around the pitch.
I get he's limited - at times he could carry the ball forward himself a lot more, even MacGuire was doing that.Still I think he's the best all round midfielder in the squad, albeit in a squad which has hardly any central midfielders! He's not an ideal solution, but at the moment he's our best bet imo.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Diamond Dog » 18 Jun 2018, 22:49

He doesn't understand his role or his limitations and is very dangerous as a result. He will cost us dearly in that role, because he's a very ordinary player who believes every so often that he can pass like Glenn Hoddle. Mark my words.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Goat Boy » 18 Jun 2018, 22:54

i say KEEP HIM IN!
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Samoan » 18 Jun 2018, 23:26

never/ever wrote:Just in case you don't follow USA Soccer Guy on Facebook....

"The HurriKane gets the W for England Soccer Club with his overtime head kick into the soccer goal interior against some African team. The Three Lines took a lead in the first quarter but started goofin around in deefense and doing soccer bad and concedified the equalization play from a 12 yard deathstrike which kinda sucked. But the Soccer Chicken goal inserter had the final say, making sure everyone from Britain was real happy. #ThreeLines #EnglandSocceeClub #GoSaveThatQueen".

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Copehead » 18 Jun 2018, 23:39

Diamond Dog wrote:[q

But the one thing you cannot do there is lose the ball, G. And Henderson can't help himself - he gets these mad delusions of grandeur and decides to spray a 50 yard pass somewhere. Anywhere. It doesn't matter - we always end up losing possession.

His role (thatrole) is to be the conduit between defence and attack. Simple as that. Get the ball, move it quickly and accurately to the players in your team that can play. Henderson thinks he's better than that, Dier doesn't.


I think Martin O'Neil has just destroyed that argument on the ITV highlights program by showing why Henderson was the best player on the park this evening over a series of clips showing him spraying 30-40 yard passes into people's feet and into space for people to run on to.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby trans-chigley express » 19 Jun 2018, 05:33

I didn't think Henderson had a bad game. Sterling on the other hand was awful. He should be dropped unless running blindly into defenders and losing the ball is all part of a grand plan.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Diamond Dog » 19 Jun 2018, 05:48

Copehead wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:[q

But the one thing you cannot do there is lose the ball, G. And Henderson can't help himself - he gets these mad delusions of grandeur and decides to spray a 50 yard pass somewhere. Anywhere. It doesn't matter - we always end up losing possession.

His role (thatrole) is to be the conduit between defence and attack. Simple as that. Get the ball, move it quickly and accurately to the players in your team that can play. Henderson thinks he's better than that, Dier doesn't.


I think Martin O'Neil has just destroyed that argument on the ITV highlights program by showing why Henderson was the best player on the park this evening over a series of clips showing him spraying 30-40 yard passes into people's feet and into space for people to run on to.


Yes, he's a very 'Martin O'Neil' like player. Ahem.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Toby » 19 Jun 2018, 06:49

Henderson's got an engine which is why he is picked. I agree with DD that he often tries to play a pass which is his undoing and against better sides it will cost us. At the same time, we need that sort of pass at pace to switch play. Ultimately we need a player we don't have.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby caramba » 19 Jun 2018, 08:41

Ironic that on one of the few nights a tuneless parping of the theme music from The Great Escape might seem merited, that annoying brass band which has been following England around for years seems to have missed the match.

Long may that absence continue.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Darkness_Fish » 19 Jun 2018, 08:58

caramba wrote:Ironic that on one of the few nights a tuneless parping of the theme music from The Great Escape might seem merited, that annoying brass band which has been following England around for years seems to have missed the match.

Long may that absence continue.

You can only hope that they did travel, but Putin intercepted them, and they're being given special treatment.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Darkness_Fish » 19 Jun 2018, 10:19

Btw, just to continue my foolhardy defence of Sterling vs Rashford, and because I'm bored at work.

In 68 minutes, Sterling attempted 5 dribbles and was dispossessed 5 times. He made two key passes, and had two instances of poor control.
In 22 minutes, Rashford attempted 1 dribble, was dispossessed twice, made no key passes and one instance of poor control.

Not making much of a defence of Sterling, but not making much of a case for Rashford, either.

https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/345/Sho ... nd-England
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Darkness_Fish » 19 Jun 2018, 10:20

I really am bored.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Toby » 19 Jun 2018, 10:42

As DD says, the problem is that he doesn't like he's going to score at any point in the given future. That miss, despite it being offside, was absolutely pitiful. You just can't imagine him burying anything, and in knockout football players like that are a big issue.

However, players often hit form during a tournament so he might come good. I'll go with the Rashford consensus though.