World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

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Darkness_Fish
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Darkness_Fish » 18 Jun 2018, 22:22

Sterling gets dispossessed often, and misses easy chances. But he's the only one who'll take a direct route through the middle, and take players on. When you don't have a creative midfielder who can pick out a decent pass, even the ball bouncing off his shin is our best chance of making something happen. Bombing down the wings isn't going to work much for England, because we don't play with an old-fashioned English centre-forward, and that's all that Rashford will do, cross it to some brick shithouse of a defender. I'd rather have Lingard for England right now.

Taking Sterling off today, even though he was pretty crap, didn't improve us at all. We looked even flatter, with no movement at all. We actually looked to Young to provide something, which is just desperate.

I agree I'd rather have Dier there, too, than Henderson.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Goat Boy » 18 Jun 2018, 22:25

Rashford is the only England player who is showing any flair and willingness to go past players. The opening 20 minutes or so was encouraging but the lack of creativity really showed in the 2nd half I felt. England were tiring but they looked very pedestrian. That's when you need players to step up and do something and the only players who did that were the subs.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Diamond Dog » 18 Jun 2018, 22:26

Toby wrote:Sterling can pull players towards him, which I think is his key asset more than anything else. But Rashford can bypass them completely and also score.

I feel Sterling is still a viable option but time is running out for him unless he produces a truly compelling performance.


He hasn't scored at international level since October 2015.

For a player in his position, that's inconceivably bad.
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The Modernist
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby The Modernist » 18 Jun 2018, 22:27

Diamond Dog wrote:
The Modernist wrote:I actually thought Henderson had a decent game. His long passing was Kroos like at times. He did tire noticeably in the second half though. His problem is he's got Lingard playing alongside him and he's just not a midfielder. He's having to carry things on his own.



Which is why Dier is the better bet. He will realise his role is to protect the back three. The wing backs and midfield three are there to create chances, for Kane particularly. And he won't give the ball away trying to be Platini.


You have to have someone advancing from the centre circle Pete! To be honest I think the system's a bit fucked but Southgate is wedded to it. But I think midfield will be the area that comes back to haunt England.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby The Modernist » 18 Jun 2018, 22:29

Darkness_Fish wrote:Sterling gets dispossessed often, and misses easy chances. But he's the only one who'll take a direct route through the middle, and take players on. .


That's what he's meant to give you yes, but he very rarely does it. He's living on his reputation

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Diamond Dog » 18 Jun 2018, 22:35

The Modernist wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:
The Modernist wrote:I actually thought Henderson had a decent game. His long passing was Kroos like at times. He did tire noticeably in the second half though. His problem is he's got Lingard playing alongside him and he's just not a midfielder. He's having to carry things on his own.



Which is why Dier is the better bet. He will realise his role is to protect the back three. The wing backs and midfield three are there to create chances, for Kane particularly. And he won't give the ball away trying to be Platini.


You have to have someone advancing from the centre circle Pete! To be honest I think the system's a bit fucked but Southgate is wedded to it. But I think midfield will be the area that comes back to haunt England.



But the one thing you cannot do there is lose the ball, G. And Henderson can't help himself - he gets these mad delusions of grandeur and decides to spray a 50 yard pass somewhere. Anywhere. It doesn't matter - we always end up losing possession.

His role (thatrole) is to be the conduit between defence and attack. Simple as that. Get the ball, move it quickly and accurately to the players in your team that can play. Henderson thinks he's better than that, Dier doesn't.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby The Modernist » 18 Jun 2018, 22:38

Darkness_Fish wrote: Bombing down the wings isn't going to work much for England, because we don't play with an old-fashioned English centre-forward, and that's all that Rashford will do, cross it to some brick shithouse of a defender. .


Your understanding of football is even worse than your music taste! Having a player who will take on a defender, beat him and get in the penalty box to put in a dangerous low cross is precisely how England can get goals. And he has the confidence to do it as he's shown numerous times now.
Without his invention and flair England are going to be very reliant on set pieces for goals because that invention and flair is not going to come from Alli and Sterling.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Diamond Dog » 18 Jun 2018, 22:38

The Modernist wrote:
Darkness_Fish wrote:Sterling gets dispossessed often, and misses easy chances. But he's the only one who'll take a direct route through the middle, and take players on. .


That's what he's meant to give you yes, but he very rarely does it. He's living on his reputation


No goal in nearly 3 years at this level. He can charge through the middle as much as he wants - he's just not good enough at top level.

He is being masked by the stunning players around him at Man City. Next season they'll find a better more clinical update and Sterling will be history.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby The Modernist » 18 Jun 2018, 22:38

Goat Boy wrote:Rashford is the only England player who is showing any flair and willingness to go past players. The opening 20 minutes or so was encouraging but the lack of creativity really showed in the 2nd half I felt. England were tiring but they looked very pedestrian. That's when you need players to step up and do something and the only players who did that were the subs.


Spot on.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Diamond Dog » 18 Jun 2018, 22:41

Indeed. He has an X factor the rest don;t have.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Pansy Puff » 18 Jun 2018, 22:42

Diamond Dog wrote:
The Modernist wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:

Which is why Dier is the better bet. He will realise his role is to protect the back three. The wing backs and midfield three are there to create chances, for Kane particularly. And he won't give the ball away trying to be Platini.


You have to have someone advancing from the centre circle Pete! To be honest I think the system's a bit fucked but Southgate is wedded to it. But I think midfield will be the area that comes back to haunt England.



But the one thing you cannot do there is lose the ball, G. And Henderson can't help himself - he gets these mad delusions of grandeur and decides to spray a 50 yard pass somewhere. Anywhere. It doesn't matter - we always end up losing possession.

His role (thatrole) is to be the conduit between defence and attack. Simple as that. Get the ball, move it quickly and accurately to the players in your team that can play. Henderson thinks he's better than that, Dier doesn't.

It's that classic line from Cruyff: "English footballers are very polite. If they take the ball off you they always give it back to you."
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby The Modernist » 18 Jun 2018, 22:46

Diamond Dog wrote:

But the one thing you cannot do there is lose the ball, G. And Henderson can't help himself - he gets these mad delusions of grandeur and decides to spray a 50 yard pass somewhere. Anywhere. It doesn't matter - we always end up losing possession.

His role (thatrole) is to be the conduit between defence and attack. Simple as that. Get the ball, move it quickly and accurately to the players in your team that can play. Henderson thinks he's better than that, Dier doesn't.


But you need your central midfielder to do more than just play simple balls, I thought he was spreading the play quite well. Plus he's a much better athlete than Dier who is quite ponderous around the pitch.
I get he's limited - at times he could carry the ball forward himself a lot more, even MacGuire was doing that.Still I think he's the best all round midfielder in the squad, albeit in a squad which has hardly any central midfielders! He's not an ideal solution, but at the moment he's our best bet imo.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Diamond Dog » 18 Jun 2018, 22:49

He doesn't understand his role or his limitations and is very dangerous as a result. He will cost us dearly in that role, because he's a very ordinary player who believes every so often that he can pass like Glenn Hoddle. Mark my words.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Goat Boy » 18 Jun 2018, 22:54

i say KEEP HIM IN!
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Samoan » 18 Jun 2018, 23:26

never/ever wrote:Just in case you don't follow USA Soccer Guy on Facebook....

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Copehead » 18 Jun 2018, 23:39

Diamond Dog wrote:[q

But the one thing you cannot do there is lose the ball, G. And Henderson can't help himself - he gets these mad delusions of grandeur and decides to spray a 50 yard pass somewhere. Anywhere. It doesn't matter - we always end up losing possession.

His role (thatrole) is to be the conduit between defence and attack. Simple as that. Get the ball, move it quickly and accurately to the players in your team that can play. Henderson thinks he's better than that, Dier doesn't.


I think Martin O'Neil has just destroyed that argument on the ITV highlights program by showing why Henderson was the best player on the park this evening over a series of clips showing him spraying 30-40 yard passes into people's feet and into space for people to run on to.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby trans-chigley express » 19 Jun 2018, 05:33

I didn't think Henderson had a bad game. Sterling on the other hand was awful. He should be dropped unless running blindly into defenders and losing the ball is all part of a grand plan.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Diamond Dog » 19 Jun 2018, 05:48

Copehead wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:[q

But the one thing you cannot do there is lose the ball, G. And Henderson can't help himself - he gets these mad delusions of grandeur and decides to spray a 50 yard pass somewhere. Anywhere. It doesn't matter - we always end up losing possession.

His role (thatrole) is to be the conduit between defence and attack. Simple as that. Get the ball, move it quickly and accurately to the players in your team that can play. Henderson thinks he's better than that, Dier doesn't.


I think Martin O'Neil has just destroyed that argument on the ITV highlights program by showing why Henderson was the best player on the park this evening over a series of clips showing him spraying 30-40 yard passes into people's feet and into space for people to run on to.


Yes, he's a very 'Martin O'Neil' like player. Ahem.
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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby Toby » 19 Jun 2018, 06:49

Henderson's got an engine which is why he is picked. I agree with DD that he often tries to play a pass which is his undoing and against better sides it will cost us. At the same time, we need that sort of pass at pace to switch play. Ultimately we need a player we don't have.

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Re: World Cup 2018 - Rossiya

Postby caramba » 19 Jun 2018, 08:41

Ironic that on one of the few nights a tuneless parping of the theme music from The Great Escape might seem merited, that annoying brass band which has been following England around for years seems to have missed the match.

Long may that absence continue.