BCB England football team thread

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Diamond Dog
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Diamond Dog » 12 Nov 2017, 11:22

Toby wrote:
The problem is that England players peak around November, so we get all excited about the possibilities and this then builds with anticipation towards the World Cup, when they all flop miserably.



I'm not sure the first part of your sentence is correct to be honest.

I don't think anyone has been excited about England's World Cup chances for at least two tournaments, if not more. I'm not sure anyone is excited about our chances for this one either.

I happen to think we did a decent job against a good German tteam, with a few younger inexperienced players impressing. Maybe now the pressure of qualifying is over, we're going to start to see how Southgate wants his team to lok in the World Cup. Maybe the Germany game was it. It certainly looked better than the continued failed policy of four at the back, Hart in goal, Henderson in midfield etc etc.
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Toby » 12 Nov 2017, 11:31

I don't doubt that. I think there is a hint of a positive direction under Southgate, in particular with Stones looking like he's progressing very well at Man City, but I have to yet witness anything in competitive football that makes me think that this will translate into something tangible yet.

Sure, you can only beat the sides put in front of you and England are right to have us playing the likes of Germany and Brazil rather than Morocco and Serbia with all due respect to those teams. But when we play well in a competitive match consecutively over a period of 2 or 3 games then I'll start to be more bullish about our chances.

I realise that most people don't rate us getting beyond the quarters.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby The Modernist » 12 Nov 2017, 13:02

Toby wrote:Dele Alli is already a much better player than Wilshere has ever been in all honesty.


Come back and tell me that when Dele Alli imposes himself on a peak Barcelona side, then we'll have that particular conversation.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Lord Rother » 12 Nov 2017, 13:06

Toby wrote:Dele Alli is already a much better player than Wilshere has ever been in all honesty.


That’s laughable in all honesty.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Lord Rother » 12 Nov 2017, 13:15

What Southgate has to do now is focus on 2020 and 2022, not 2018.

Just pick the teams that might be capable of doing well in those tournaments. Give the players opportunities of gaining invaluable senior tournament experience.

We won’t do well in 2018 regardless of who he picks but if Hart, Henderson, Cahill, Sturridge, Oxlade Chamberlin et al go to Russia it would be a mistake and a huge opportunity missed.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Diamond Dog » 12 Nov 2017, 13:37

Lord Rother wrote:What Southgate has to do now is focus on 2020 and 2022, not 2018.


Back in September :

Diamond Dog wrote:One thing I did think about yesterday is how young the side is, with up to half of them in their very early to mid 20's (Rashford being even younger). Maybe I should cut them a bit of slack because, in many ways, Southgate is doing what I've been proposing for a number of years - forget about the next tournament (we aren't winning the World Cup) and concentrate on keeping the young nucleus together through the tournament, gain that experience, and then kick on for the Euros with a squad that's played together for three years or so... hopefully see an improvement, gradually replace the older heads that are left and then gear up for Qatar in 2022... where, if all is well, we should have an established youngish team, who understand what the manager wants and work well together.

Are we in England prepared to give Southgate that six years? Probably not.
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Toby » 12 Nov 2017, 16:11

Lord Rother wrote:
Toby wrote:Dele Alli is already a much better player than Wilshere has ever been in all honesty.


That’s laughable in all honesty.[/quote

Wilshire is 26 and the reality is that he has maybe a season or two to have any semblance of a career beyond a handful of exceptional performances and one blighted by injury.

Alli is 20, playing exceptionally under a great manager and has done so consistently for 2 seasons. He scored 20 goals last season - for a midfielder that's outstanding.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Lord Rother » 12 Nov 2017, 17:40

No argument about Dele’s achievements / promise and Wilshere’s disappointing career so far but for me the latter is the best English footballer I’ve seen since Gascoigne.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Lord Rother » 14 Nov 2017, 22:16

Another hugely promising performance from young England.

I actually want to watch their next game.

I shall cry if Henderson and Cahill play though. Southgate simply must continue down this path.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby WG Kaspar » 14 Nov 2017, 22:26

Lord Rother wrote:No argument about Dele’s achievements / promise and Wilshere’s disappointing career so far but for me the latter is the best English footballer I’ve seen since Gascoigne.

So are you saying that Wilshere is better than Beckham, Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, Terry, Ashley Cole, Rooney, Owen and Ferdinard?
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Diamond Dog » 15 Nov 2017, 05:58

Lord Rother wrote:Another hugely promising performance from young England.

I actually want to watch their next game.

I shall cry if Henderson and Cahill play though. Southgate simply must continue down this path.


I'm not so keen to criticise Cahill - but it's clear we have better options at the centre back position now (Gomez was superb last night).

But Henderson shouldn't be allowed on the pitch again in an England shirt - sadly I think Livermore played both games in full just to keep the place warm for 'the captain' when he returns from Injury. I sincerely hope not (and there has to be a better option than both Livermore and Henderson) but I fear the worst.

Overall a solid performance against Brazil - we seemed to lose some fluency after Loftus-Cheek's departure, but we contained well and occasionally looked good going forward. I thought Vardy was exposed a bit - there really isn't much to his game besides his speed- and Walker, as always, is utterly clueless positionally. Even as a wing back he still constantly gets caught drifting inwards and has simply not a clue of what to do when we don;t have the ball. I'm not sure Trippier (or Clyne) are better than him going forward, but I'm certain they're better going the other way.
Last edited by Diamond Dog on 15 Nov 2017, 11:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Lord Rother » 15 Nov 2017, 08:52

WG Kaspar wrote:
Lord Rother wrote:No argument about Dele’s achievements / promise and Wilshere’s disappointing career so far but for me the latter is the best English footballer I’ve seen since Gascoigne.

So are you saying that Wilshere is better than Beckham, Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, Terry, Ashley Cole, Rooney, Owen and Ferdinard?


You got it.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Diamond Dog » 15 Nov 2017, 09:32

Oh and I thought Ryan Bertrand had a very poor game last night - Rose is home and hosed as long as he can stay fit.
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Goat Boy » 15 Nov 2017, 10:37

I thought Gomez and Maguire looked good. There seems to be potential there. I was surprised the later didn’t go to a bigger club.

I really wish Brazil would play with a more creative centre midfield player. I think they would really benefit.
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Toby » 15 Nov 2017, 11:21

Squad

Hart, Pickford, Butland

Stones, Maguire, Cahill, Jones, Gomez, Walker, Trippier, Rose, Bertrand,

Henderson, Loftus-Cheek, Dier, Alli, Lallana, Winks

Kane, Vardy, Rashford


I imagine that at least 3 of those will be injured and out of action by May though.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Darkness_Fish » 15 Nov 2017, 11:26

Livermore and Bertrand were the only real disappointments in the England team for me, even Joe Hart looked quite solid. Neymar was in full Fifa 2018 mode last night, beat someone with a trick, run straight, run straight, run straight, balloon it into the stands. So disappointing, it's like he was trying to justify his star billing, rather than trying to win the game.
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby The Modernist » 15 Nov 2017, 11:57

It's Doug Livermore. What do you expect?

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby The Modernist » 15 Nov 2017, 11:58

Toby wrote:Squad

Hart, Pickford, Butland

Stones, Maguire, Cahill, Jones, Gomez, Walker, Trippier, Rose, Bertrand,

Henderson, Loftus-Cheek, Dier, Alli, Lallana, Winks

Kane, Vardy, Rashford


I imagine that at least 3 of those will be injured and out of action by May though.


Hardly any width in there at all.

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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Rayge » 15 Nov 2017, 13:27

The Modernist wrote:It's Doug Livermore. What do you expect?


Seeing as he's 70 years old, not much.
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Re: BCB England football team thread

Postby Rayge » 15 Nov 2017, 13:34

The Modernist wrote:
Toby wrote:Squad

Hart, Pickford, Butland

Stones, Maguire, Cahill, Jones, Gomez, Walker, Trippier, Rose, Bertrand,

Henderson, Loftus-Cheek, Dier, Alli, Lallana, Winks

Kane, Vardy, Rashford


I imagine that at least 3 of those will be injured and out of action by May though.


Hardly any width in there at all.


And only 21 players. Aren't there usually 23? Where's Sterling?

If I cared about England's chances/performance, I wouldn't let Henderson near the squad (Lewis Cook?), Abrahams and/or Solanke would be there in front of Vardy.
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