Anthology of American Folk Music

BCBers plug your own band, label, radio show, magazine, website here along with other stuff that might be interesting.
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Re: Anthology of American Folk Music

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 22 Jul 2014, 17:59

.
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Imagine it is March 1963 - the day before Please, Please Me was released. Other than My Bonnie and Love Me Do, The Beatles have been virtually unheard on record.

But on this day...


Who is the greatest band or artist?


Duke Ellington and His Famous Orchestra, Black and Tan Fantasy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ifnuC1q2I4

What single best represents the artistic vanguard?


Charlie Parker, Ko-Ko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EaXzxPCIhI


Rev. Utah Smith, Two Wings
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53tnAuSDQgU

What is the "best album ever"?


Howlin' Wolf, (Rocking Chair Album), 1962
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1uRn7uRoXo

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=AL ... mVC6zvdhgp

What is the "most ambitious" album?


Mingus, -ah, -um
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY3hJc4sKqs

Who is the "best guitar player in the world"?


Otis Rush, All Your Love
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kZaBdKbVco

The best bassist?

Drummer?

Singer?

Robert Quine wrote:Something I'd recommend to everyone is Lester Young The Alladin Sessions. There's a ballad he does, 'These Foolish Things.' The feeling is resignation beyond sadness, self-pity. That has affected my playing. But I don't have the discipline to play jazz myself. At the time though, I was stupid enough to think I could be a jazz musician.



Lester Young, These Foolish Things
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_gXQawsgiQ

Harmony vocalists?

What is the best written song?


George Gershwin, Embraceable You
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha4mgxN_E5w

Who is the best songwriter or songwriting team?

Rodgers & Hart
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Re: Anthology of American Folk Music

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 22 Jul 2014, 17:59

.


Sonic Youth - Death Valley 69 (from Bad Moon Rising, 1985)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw5Vy8fKpYI


Big Star, Kangaroo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8xPHS-n5Gw


The Replacements, Androgynous
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuAGgDg9fOw
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Re: Anthology of American Folk Music

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 22 Jul 2014, 18:00

.


Yo La Tengo & Alex Chilton, Till the End of the Day
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAQ8gqb3Zxk


Alex Chilton & Teenage Fanclub, I Never Found a Girl, My Heart Stood Still
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZn9MlHlbvI
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Re: Anthology of American Folk Music

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 22 Jul 2014, 18:00

.

A remarkable amalgam of pedal steel and the type of pop music that usually does not call for pedal steel.


The Shins, Gone for Good
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l10DWZTXGN4

or maybe it does


Alex Chilton, Free Again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z41iQxC8_qM

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Re: Anthology of American Folk Music

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 30 Jul 2014, 16:42

Quaco wrote:Most heart-wrenching love songs from a woman's point of view

Aching for someone, or any similar feeling.

Not steamy or romantic -- i.e., no "Love to Love You Baby"s. Is there a female "I Am the Cosmos"?



Chris Bell, I Am the Cosmos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR594Kkxmzg

VRZ Robotz wrote:Based on the examples Quaco gave (cosmos, I want you) - it seems like he's looking for songs of obsession.


Well, if that's the case...


Throwing Muses, Call Me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7Y9FooqABQ

I generally object to quoting the lyrics in full, but the song is complicated and sung very quickly. Since there is a very specific objective we have in mind here on this thread ( /viewtopic.php?f=1&t=124396 ), here are the words.

Call me
Read the stop signs
I can't love nothing
I mate, kill
You wake up and it's not morning
I can't sleep, I loved you once
I loved you so much

There's a shape on the horizon
As we're picked off one by one
Something's gone
Something's over

Move your hand again
I can't watch you wash
The floor
You live for the green
I hold your flame
So why?

There's a shape over the ocean
As we're picked off one by one
Summer's gone
Summer's over

Somebody here's too smart
There's nothing that doesn't die
Why don't you do to my insight
What you do to my insides?
Oh, babe

I'm in a deep hole
I've dug myself five feet deep
So many people want to talk
They look in the mirror, see themselves
They look in the mirror, they look at me,
They look at me
They look at me, oh-oh-oh

Something's gone
Something's over

Peter said
"Thanks for letting me hold you
Calling me moonshine
I can take you there and call you that"
This is your name

I'm lonely at night
Time on my hands
I feel sad in the day
Call me
Call me
Call me

Nobody knows
Home or away
What I'm waiting for
Call me
Call me
Call me

Here I am
What a loser
Waiting for years to go by
Call me
Call me
Call me


Having nominated this track, I would also say that on a fundamental level, I don't think of it as a love song. Obviously that's a component, but it's about a state of mind, of which love is a part. That seems to be a common trait on the Throwing Muses's debut album, i.e., love is not off by itself, but put next to many other things.

Note also that this track is totally unlike "I Am the Cosmos" in important ways. That track is about weakness and falling apart from ambivalence.

This track is about, not strength per se, but exploding because of contradictions. You feel the force of gravity in "I Am the Cosmos". Here gravity doesn't exist. You feel the presence of a critical mass.

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Re: Anthology of American Folk Music

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 30 Jul 2014, 17:01

.

Snarfyguy wrote:
Bent Fabric wrote:
clive gash wrote:




:lol:

That's mean!

The biggest punchline in rock lore, I honestly can't believe the guy didn't do away with himself ages ago.


If you believe what he's said on this, he did make an attempt.

Pete suffered depression and even made a bungled suicide attempt - turning on the gas fire and blocking the doors before he was rescued by his brothers.

"There have been times when we were struggling to pay the bills, when we were deep in the red and had to borrow from relatives," he adds.

--
Pete Best finally speaks out over bitter sacking from The Beatles
by Pierce King. Published Wed 04 Feb 2009 13:12, last updated: 04/02/09

http://www.clickliverpool.com/news/nati ... atles.html


The article is corroborated by other accounts and interviews.

Like the majority of people here, I admire The Beatles, and I do think about them many times. When I walk through Central Park, I often think of it as John Lennon's back yard, which it was. When I was younger, I used to imagine what it would have been like to talk to these people, and I would guess that most Beatles fans feel similarly. The band appeared personable in the mysterious way that Dylan's autobiography describes, something about "they offered community and intimacy" etc., etc. Every Beatles fan imagines having conversations with them about some subject. (Nicholas Schaffner has written how many of us feel we know them better than members of our own family.)

This is why I find accounts like Pete Best's or Cynthia Lennon's to be useful. You could, of course, argue that these accounts are coming from people with an axe to grind; You could also argue that the standard biographies are fundamentally incomplete and that the default is hagiography. When Paul McCartney was asked about "It's Getting Better", he didn't want to get into how the lyrics might be related to John Lennon's abuse of women.

See 14:30 for one account.

The Day John Lennon Died 2010
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjU7VMj94ss

I understand Paul's tactic, but I also understand that there is a certain Beatle myth that people feel compelled to maintain. In one sense, as much as Paul McCartney and Yoko Ono are adversaries, they both understand this rule. As someone quite outside of either sphere, I don't have to understand or follow this rule at all.

Hearing Pete Best or reading Cynthia Lennon's book (which actually I couldn't finish) makes me think not just about how little I know about The Beatles but also how little I really want to know them. It's understandable why fans like me want or wanted to have conversations with them because their mastery of a certain type of pop music was so complete, but in all likelihood, no one in The Beatles would have wanted to have a conversation with me or, to extend this, with anyone else posting on this thread. They're there in some very different place, and we're somewhere else.

As a fan and as someone who didn't know them, I have the luxury of being disconnected from any personal association with that band, which is something that unfortunately people like Pete Best or Cynthia Lennon or Thelma Pickles can't. They have to carry around all the personal memories of those people. And what makes it worse is that they have to deal with fans saying how great The Beatles were or how John was such a peace saint. They simply can't escape them. You can see how for someone like Pete Best it might turn into a nightmare.

As someone with no personal connection, I have the freedom to be anywhere in between these 2 quotes. The older I get, the more I am grateful for this luxury.

The Beatles (``those imaginary Americans,'' Leslie Fiedler called them), madly in love with American popular culture and living their own American dream, increased their ambitions as they got closer to their goals: first they wanted to be Eddie Cochran, then they decided they could be Elvis, and then they were on their own. They understood, finally, that they could affect the lives of kids all over the world. The fact that they succeeded tells us how much big pop ambitions are worth; everyone who might conceivably read this book has been changed for the better because of what the Beatles did.

--Greil Marcus, Mystery Train: Images of America in Rock 'n; Roll Music, Revised Edition, Chapter (Randy Newman: Every Man Is Free), page 114, E.P. Dutton, 1982


an extraordinary man: talented, flawed, a creative genius who sang movingly about love while often
wounding those closest to him. I never stopped loving John, but the cost of that love has been enormous. Someone asked me recently whether, if I'd known at the beginning what lay ahead, I would have gone through with it. I had to say no. Of course I could never regret having my wonderful son. But the truth is that if I'd known as a teenager what falling for John Lennon would lead to, I would have turned round right then and walked away.

--Cynthia Lennon, John, Chapter 20, page 294, Crown Publishing Group, 2005



Both Cynthia Lennon and Greil Marcus are right even though their words oppose one another. On good days, I can separate the two, keeping the first quote in one hand, the second in the other and try to figure how where I fit.
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Re: Anthology of American Folk Music

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 30 Jul 2014, 17:02

.

Regarding echo as an effect


Steve Reich, Come Out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGDo1YN_q3c


I admire The Beatles, but I also acknowledge that their success also necessarily meant that they eclipsed the following band.


The Shadows, Wonderful Land
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j9fJbkzheY

The guitar tones that The Beatles got were from a different planet. It's amazing to me that the amp was essentially the same, Vox. Of course, the input was different.


On a different note...


Edge from It Might Get Loud
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMw8NjCs_dg

The whole 3 against 2 rhythm that Evans gets is a natural continuation of a great deal of jazz.
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Re: Anthology of American Folk Music

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 30 Jul 2014, 17:02

.

Similar performers in the US and UK


Otis Rush, Peter Green



Otis Rush, My Love Will Never Die
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCD83igIShM


Fleetwood Mac, Black Magic Woman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRu7Pt42x6Y


---------


Dusty Springfield, Breakfast in Bed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11fFE9lR56U



Aretha Franklin, I Say a Little Prayer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STKkWj2WpWM

-------------



McCoy Tyner, Passion Dance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvmJHprG_Fg



Richard Thompson, Hard on Me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNUFyPryV5M
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Re: Anthology of American Folk Music

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 30 Jul 2014, 17:03

.

How important are production values in recording music

Here's a specific example:

In the first clip, Tony Visconti talks about how he recorded David Bowie on "Heroes". See 4:00.



Rock history 18- Bowie in Berlin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBwUteHd_OE

Note the discussion on microphone placement and gates.

Now here is the studio version:


David Bowie, Heroes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3SjCzA71eM


David Bowie, Heroes (Live)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYjBQKIOb-w


Does all the studio manipulation make the song that much better, or is the song essentially there in the non-studio version.
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Re: Anthology of American Folk Music

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 30 Jul 2014, 17:03

.

A remarkable amalgam of pedal steel and the type of pop music that usually does not call for pedal steel.


The Shins, Gone for Good
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l10DWZTXGN4
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Re: Anthology of American Folk Music

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 30 Jul 2014, 17:04

.

Anyone who uses octave solos is, almost by default, referring to Wes.


Jimi Hendrix, Villanova Junction
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa_Rnwi-Gjo


Besides that there is a strong general link between Curtis Mayfield, Wes, and Hendrix.
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Re: Anthology of American Folk Music

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 30 Jul 2014, 17:04

.

Nick Drake and Big Star usually aren't mentioned together even though it seems that they share a lot of points in common. Here's a brief list that I put together in a few minutes.

1. began about the same time (late 60s, early 70s),

2. not well-known at the beginning of careers,

3. performed very infrequently in public,

4. no footage available of public performances(?),

5. have intricately arranged albums,

6. relatively small output (3-4 albums),

7. history of mental illness,

8. early death (26/27),

9. often cited by other bands,

10. significant popularity and success about 20 years after last album,

11. fame assisted by TV (Volkswagen ad, That 70s Show).


Certainly I've overlooked some things other points of similarity. What?

12. songs concerned with melancholia, depression, or mental distress


Nick Drake, Things Behind the Sun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1AkYgBTc4M


Chris Bell, I Am the Cosmos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR594Kkxmzg


Big Star, Holocaust
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsQ977u8Wuk


13. (paraphrasing from above) a fanbase of performing musicians who went to great lengths to get either Nick Drake or Big Star heard. In the history of pop music, this may be the most extreme example of all.



The Replacements, Alex Chilton
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KbJPtSI01E


Snarfyguy wrote:So then they're basically the same thing, is the conclusion we're coming to.

:)


With all due respect, this thread was meant to be something of an alternative to the one in which Big Star and New Order are pitted against one another.

There're definitely reasons to compare those 2 bands such as the biographical one that in both cases a leader who has some mental problems leaves the band after initial success and then the rest of the band has to figure out what to do. However, as far as I could tell from that thread, no one made this fairly rudimentary comparison. That thread ended up being a list of opinions about which band so-and-so likes more.

Nick Drake and Big Star share a lot of traits in common, enough so that it would make sense after listing a few of them to start asking if there is actually any relation between these traits. This is NOT the same as asking if there is a relation between Nick Drake's music and Big Star's music, by the way.

Nick Drake and Big Star are quite different. Drake, for example, as an instrumentalist is beyond anyone in Big Star, and I'm saying that as someone who likes Chilton's guitar playing a lot. Drake's songwriting is much more about reserve. Chilton and Bell are not about reserve.

In addition, Drake was about perfecting a very specific style. Chilton is very transparently eclectic. His includes very precise pop but also very imprecise and out of control pop.


Alex Chilton, Sugar Sugar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDLgrQv2rgs

He also knew a lot of jazz.

In this thread ( viewtopic.php?f=1&t=124370 ), I asked about semi-obscure references in his music to soundtracks.
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Re: Anthology of American Folk Music

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 30 Jul 2014, 17:05

.

Clearly a more precise description would be "Chilton and Bell are not about reserve all the time."

Part of the eclecticism that I attributed to Chilton has to do with the way he navigates from country to fuzzed-out,we-really-don't-care, pre-Replacements post-punk, which, of course, in his case, was pre-punk, to power pop to jazz to film soundtracks. If you cover that sort of territory, sometimes you will have express reserve; other times you will be expressing the opposite.

Chilton's public persona, including his stage demeanor, by the way, is exactly what I expect from a mature performer. Bob Dylan plays his old hits, but he keeps them somewhat at arm's length. David Bowie was once repeatedly asked on Fresh Air about Ziggy Stardust, and he replied that in the US, he's known for Ziggy and Let's Dance while in Europe, he's bloke who's recorded 26 albums. It was clear which reputation he preferred. Richard Thompson will somewhat grudgingly play old stuff by Fairport, but he doesn't dwell on it.

In the privacy of his studio, he probably knows that he will never top this


Fairport Convention, Genesis Hall (age approximately 19)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4P1F5fnXj0

or this



Fairport Convention, Crazy Man Michael (age approximately 19-20)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t2-wUPo7Oo

I mean, I like "'52 Fender Telecaster Vincent Black Lightening " as much as the next person, but I don't think it's in the same league. Having said that, I wouldn't want Thompson to go around thinking about "Genesis Hall" every day. His job as a performer is to come up with new stuff and test it out on the road.

While we're on the subject of Thompson, here's a live clip. See 6:10 for a brief solo on "Time Will Show the Wiser."


Fairport Convention at Bouton Rouge
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErDLB8kd2p4

80% of his style was formed by the time he was 19, but the reason we know about him probably has to do with the fact that he refuses to recognize this. For 45 years, he's been grinding away, trying to write something else instead of dwelling on the past.

There's an interesting anecdote about Thompson and Nick Drake, but I think I will leave that for another post.

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Re: Anthology of American Folk Music

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 07 Aug 2014, 04:54

Sgt. Pepper no, and certainly not Something Else, but certainly one can understand how, let's say "Revolution 9" and large chunks of The Beatles could seem claustrophobic and quite unpleasant.

At first, Fahey was strictly a bluegrass fanatic. His parents took him to hillbilly concerts at the New River Ranch in Rising Sun, Md., and he caught the bug upon hearing Bill Monroe's "Blue Yodel No. 7" on Don Owens' show on WARL-AM. Soon after, he started picking Lester Flatt runs on a Sears guitar, but a meeting with record collector—and current WAMU-FM DJ—Dick Spottswood opened up his musical horizons.

Two years older than Fahey, Spottswood had immersed himself in the country blues after finding a copy of Skip James' "Hard Time Killing Floor Blues" at an Adams Morgan record shop for $1. On a 1956 canvassing expedition to east Baltimore, the pair made a nice haul and went back to Spottswood's, where they listened to their loot, including a beat-up copy of Blind Willie Johnson's "Praise God I'm Satisfied." Fahey wasn't interested in black music at the time, recalls Spottswood, and he dismissed the record as "some crude, weird shit" and went home. "A couple hours later, John calls me up and says, 'Would you play that record again?' So I played it for him over the phone, and he said, 'I've changed my mind—I really like it.' So that was his particular epiphany." (Fahey later said that the record at first nauseated him and then made him weep; he compared it to a conversion experience: Johnson's one-two punch of salvation and slide guitar left Fahey "smote to the ground by a bolt of lightning.")

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/spec ... 30901.html




Blind Willie Johnson, Praise God, I'm Satisfied
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwXqzeWOqzs




John Fahey, In Christ There is No East or West
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPo82UnIqcA

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Re: Anthology of American Folk Music

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 16 Jan 2015, 04:52

motivic improvisation
Bird was a very different type of person. I always enjoyed playing with him and being around him. Some nights you would come in, and the club would be crowded. He'd just come in, play his heart out and burn. He could see something happen and play about it on his instrument. Like he'd see a pretty girl walk in, the club we're playing in, he'd be playing a solo, and all of a sudden he'd go into "A Pretty Girl Is Like Melody'' wherever he was and make it fit in, or somebody would be acting a little looky-tuney, he'd play something that would fit that. Fast. Fast mind. Genius mind. And it would fit. I know some times he'd be playing a solo, and he'd be playing a certain part of "The Last Time I Saw Paris'', and he'd keep playing it in different keys--[sings] the last time I saw Paris, the last time I saw Paris, the last time...--and he's burning. Bird, what did happen the last time you saw Paris?

--Roy Haynes, interview, Celebrating Bird: The Triumph of Charlie Parker



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAXNtHdQB08
J.S. Bach - BWV 645 - Wachet auf, ruft uns die Stimme


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IojB5RWqdCk&spfreload=1
Bach, Goldberg Variations, Variation 15, BWV 988 (ver. 2)

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Re: Anthology of American Folk Music

Postby Phenomenal Cat » 21 Jan 2015, 01:07

So this is where you've been hanging out. Jolly Up is in Chicago this year.
But somehow when you smile, I can brave bad weather.

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Re: Anthology of American Folk Music

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 27 Jan 2015, 20:53

Schedule noted. Probability low but non-zero.

Diamond Dog wrote:I was watching a programme about Mozart last night and realised I know fuck all about him really.

So - here's the challenge......name me four of his works, to give me a good grounding in the man. Can be anything he wrote - opera, symphony, concerto etc etc . Anything. Just four pieces that I need to understand and enjoy him (suggestions around the best versions on CD would be helpful too)

Off you go.



Mozart, Symphony 41:4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiX3z_fOR5k

On a different topic,


Gary Carpentur, Here's that Rainy Day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxqvLUM4pPU


Gerhard Weinberger
J.S. Bach, Erbarm dich mein, o Herre Gott
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86NvavU9lKw

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Re: Anthology of American Folk Music

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 03 Feb 2015, 21:11

Quacoan wrote:
Schizoid bands...I don't mean ones who tried a bunch of different styles (Beatles, Move, etc.).


I'm thinking about bands who have just two (or three) pretty different things they do.

I think The Nice was an example:

1) They did psych/pop songs ("Flower King of Flies", "Diamond Hard Blue Apples of the Moon", "Little Arabella")
2) They did long instrumentals with proggy touches ("Rondo", "Ars Longa Vita Brevis", "America")

... and not much in between.


Some bands might have two distinct sounds because of two different songwriters.





Early Fleetwood Mac is dominated by two very different types of Chicago blues, Otis Rush's and Elmore James's. They represent diametric opposites in a more modern sound (cf. Muddy Waters).

If Fleetwood Mac weren't so good, you could chalk them up as a cover band because their influences were so obvious.

Here's Jeremy Spencer:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIq_sEbWqMs

Here's Peter Green:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZt6EgyCeJo

Here's what Peter Green was reaching for:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9vvOoiCcew

Eric Clapton and Led Zeppelin have covered Rush's tunes, but only in formal terms. "I Can't Quit You, Baby" is not an invitation to a rave-up, which is what Plant and Page make it. It's an eccentric statement of defeat, closer in its own way to Brian Wilson than anything that Zeppelin recorded. Only Peter Green was able to figure out what made Otis Rush tick.

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take5_d_shorterer
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Re: Anthology of American Folk Music

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 18 Feb 2015, 21:11

Jazz from circa 1957


Miles Davis, "Generique" from Ascenseur pour l'échafaud
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNmbDg5UV_c



Also, to point out this rendition


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLFlJIqiMLc



is the greatest "cover" of this tune

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojtuDUbRoxI



that I have heard.

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take5_d_shorterer
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Re: Anthology of American Folk Music

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 18 Feb 2015, 21:13

.