Strummer V Lennon.

Do talk back

More In Touch

Strummer
9
30%
Lennon
21
70%
 
Total votes: 30

The Great DeFector

Strummer V Lennon.

Postby The Great DeFector » 09 Dec 2010, 01:45

No not in music per se but rather social and world commentary, more in touch with society and better at expressing it.

I can't delete this for some reason, so can it be moved to the music section please.

User avatar
Loki
The Goddess of Mischief
Posts: 16204
Joined: 18 Sep 2010, 06:34

Re: Strummer V Lennon.

Postby Loki » 09 Dec 2010, 01:58

You mean like Bono vs. Sting?
Image


whodathunkit wrote: Somewhere it's always 1972.

The Great DeFector

Re: Strummer V Lennon.

Postby The Great DeFector » 09 Dec 2010, 02:00

Loki wrote:You mean like Bono vs. Sting?

:lol: No

I meant in a serious way not them two clowns.

User avatar
Quaco
F R double E
Posts: 47168
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 19:41

Re: Strummer V Lennon.

Postby Quaco » 09 Dec 2010, 02:03

Lennon was a better songwriter than just about anybody, but in retrospect his world view was extremely naive and simplistic, not to mention changeable. I'm sure Strummer was more in touch than Lennon was. I'm sure people like Lennon, if not Lennon himself, acted as a warning to Strummer for what not to be like.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

User avatar
RcL
Posts: 8942
Joined: 15 Jun 2005, 02:39

Re: Strummer V Lennon.

Postby RcL » 09 Dec 2010, 02:29

I think that's right (well, I don't agree about your top rating of Lennon, but that's not what this thread is about) - Strummer was very well educated and travelled the world as a child. His age during his Clash songwriting years was two or three years older than Lennon in the Beatles - which can mean a lot when you are in your 20s, especially with regard to the thread's theme. I think if you become very famous before you are 25, you suffer from a sort of arrested development. Lennon's political songs tended to be sentimental and idealistic, Strummer's ones moved quite quickly from the abrasive (eg London's Burning) to the subtle and wordy (London's Calling, Spanish Bombs).

User avatar
Davey the Fat Boy
Posts: 23922
Joined: 05 Jan 2006, 02:55
Location: Applebees

Re: Strummer V Lennon.

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 09 Dec 2010, 02:42

Lennon's world view may have been simpler, but I think that was a strength. He certainly had more impact politically than Strummer ever dreamed of.
“Remember I have said good things about benevolent despots before.” - Jimbo

Image

User avatar
RcL
Posts: 8942
Joined: 15 Jun 2005, 02:39

Re: Strummer V Lennon.

Postby RcL » 09 Dec 2010, 02:46

I agree with that, Todd - but it's very little versus less than very little, isn't it?

User avatar
Quaco
F R double E
Posts: 47168
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 19:41

Re: Strummer V Lennon.

Postby Quaco » 09 Dec 2010, 02:50

I think it was a strength too, in that the man on the street is really more capable of identifying with simpler sentiments in most cases. And when Lennon tried being more specific about his critiques (Some Time in NYC), it felt completely wrong and petty, rather than universal.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

User avatar
Loki
The Goddess of Mischief
Posts: 16204
Joined: 18 Sep 2010, 06:34

Re: Strummer V Lennon.

Postby Loki » 09 Dec 2010, 02:56

I dunno.....Bono v Sting might have been more scintillating.....
Image


whodathunkit wrote: Somewhere it's always 1972.

User avatar
Davey the Fat Boy
Posts: 23922
Joined: 05 Jan 2006, 02:55
Location: Applebees

Re: Strummer V Lennon.

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 09 Dec 2010, 02:59

I think Lennon actually changed how people think - and often in a way that influenced their core values. I don't think a song boasting a more sophisticated critique on Western foreign policy has the same effect as Lennon's ability to write songs that distilled his ideas down to almost an ad campaign.

Also - I think the temptation to view Lennon's political acumen as naive misses the mark a bit. A song like Revolution certainly takes a pretty sophisticated position - especially for its time.
“Remember I have said good things about benevolent despots before.” - Jimbo

Image

sloopjohnc
Posts: 63921
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 20:12

Re: Strummer V Lennon.

Postby sloopjohnc » 09 Dec 2010, 03:22

I think you woulda done a lot of listening with either.

I agree with Quaco's views on both guys but I think Lennon would've been more fun to goof around with. I'm not the kind of guy that needs to save the world in every discussion I have. Maybe Strummer was fun too, but he didn't show that side too much in interviews.
Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk!

The Modernist

Re: Strummer V Lennon.

Postby The Modernist » 09 Dec 2010, 04:24

I don't think you can say Lennon's politics were any more naive than Strummer, who after all had a fatal weakness for romanticising "rebels" which often lead him down some dodgy waters -Brigadi Rosse t-shirts anyone?
Interestingly I'd say Strummer was equally as much a product of the sixties counter cultura and its political ideas as Lennon. However Strummer's time was the less idealistic seventies and his politics were rooted in anger and defiance , which I think is why some people are saying his beliefs sounded more concrete.
It goes without saying Lennon had a greater cultural impact, but I think anything associated with The Beatles would win that battle.
I'm too old to have heroes, but they're certainly two figures I'm attracted to. Their flaws make them all the more interesting to me.

User avatar
Corporate whore
Genuine and Authorised Pope
Posts: 16165
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 16:36
Location: ,Location, Location

Re: Strummer V Lennon.

Postby Corporate whore » 09 Dec 2010, 07:26

Admiral G wrote:I don't think you can say Lennon's politics were any more naive than Strummer, who after all had a fatal weakness for romanticising "rebels" which often lead him down some dodgy waters -Brigadi Rosse t-shirts anyone?
Interestingly I'd say Strummer was equally as much a product of the sixties counter cultura and its political ideas as Lennon. However Strummer's time was the less idealistic seventies and his politics were rooted in anger and defiance , which I think is why some people are saying his beliefs sounded more concrete.
It goes without saying Lennon had a greater cultural impact, but I think anything associated with The Beatles would win that battle.
I'm too old to have heroes, but they're certainly two figures I'm attracted to. Their flaws make them all the more interesting to me.


Word.

6th form politics from both of them, but at least Strummer brought some intelligence to the song writing.
Image

sloopjohnc
Posts: 63921
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 20:12

Re: Strummer V Lennon.

Postby sloopjohnc » 09 Dec 2010, 15:05

I'd love to talk '50s rock 'n' roll and R&B with both guys.
Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk!

User avatar
Phenomenal Cat
death on four legs
Posts: 10339
Joined: 07 Sep 2004, 16:52
Location: Presently Shattering the Illusion of Integrity
Contact:

Re: Strummer V Lennon.

Postby Phenomenal Cat » 09 Dec 2010, 15:17

corporate whohohore wrote:6th form politics from both of them, but at least Strummer brought some intelligence to the song writing.


Did Lennon become the working-class doofus somewhere along the way?

Anyhow, plenty of people have done Polemic Rock. Lennon brought a more personal element, which means I listened more closely and found messages that resonated within. I never got that from Joe. He just barked.
But somehow when you smile, I can brave bad weather.

Piggly Wiggly

Re: Strummer V Lennon.

Postby Piggly Wiggly » 09 Dec 2010, 15:21

Familial Christian Holiday wrote:I never got that from Joe. He just barked.


He bit me once, you know.

User avatar
toomanyhatz
Power-mad king of the WCC
Posts: 28080
Joined: 07 Apr 2005, 00:01
Location: Just east of where Charlie Parker went to do some relaxin'

Re: Strummer V Lennon.

Postby toomanyhatz » 09 Dec 2010, 18:35

Anyone who knows me knows who I prefer as a songwriter, but I do think it's an interesting comparison as both were often blamed for faking working-class roots that they never had. I'm not sure it's completely unfair (in either case), but I'm not sure it's totally relevant either.

The difference for me is that Lennon personalized it more, and had more of a sense of humor about it. And the fact that he threw himself into whatever he was doing while he was doing it made him seem more...well, I'm not sure how to say it. Not quite committed, not quite serious, maybe...compelling? That's probably why he had more affect overall. Well, that and that Beatle thing, anyway.

By the way, I know I've said this before, but I've known a few people who met Lennon during his "radical" days and every last one of them said that both he and Yoko were very approachable and friendly to everyone, in the movement or out. I'm not sure I know anyone who's met Strummer, but I doubt he was as universally liked in-person.
Jimbo wrote:My point is to save the world from WWIII.

Jimbo wrote:Trump is right. The collusion conspiracy theory has been debunked and you seem to refuse to look at the evidence.

1959 1963 1965 1966 1974 1977 1978 1981 1988 2017 2018 2019?

User avatar
der nister
Posts: 15564
Joined: 30 Sep 2008, 18:42

Re: Strummer V Lennon.

Postby der nister » 09 Dec 2010, 22:25

i don't know if either of them had much impact politically

the Clash were part of a scene that sought to be "in touch" to be "relevant" which may have been easy when they started out in the UK, then got less so

the Beatles came of age during the 60's as a youthful political consciousness was birthing, they didn't seek out relevance, but because they were so popular and intelligent they had it foisted upon them

i never met Lennon, but every time i met Joe he was warm, welcoming, and engaging and ready for intense discussions with all kinds of followers and believers
It's kinda depressing for a music forum to be proud of not knowing musicians.

User avatar
Nolamike
Posts: 13985
Joined: 05 Dec 2005, 21:31
Location: Heaven, Hell, or Houston
Contact:

Re: Strummer V Lennon.

Postby Nolamike » 09 Dec 2010, 23:28

On Donner, On Blitzen, On Chuy... wrote:
Familial Christian Holiday wrote:I never got that from Joe. He just barked.


He bit me once, you know.


You got off easy - his bark was worse.
Sir John Coan wrote:Nolamike is speaking nothing but sense here.


Loki wrote:Mike is Hookfinger's shill.

User avatar
bobzilla77
Posts: 16148
Joined: 23 Jun 2006, 02:56
Location: Dilute! Dilute! OK!

Re: Strummer V Lennon.

Postby bobzilla77 » 10 Dec 2010, 00:14

By the way, I know I've said this before, but I've known a few people who met Lennon during his "radical" days and every last one of them said that both he and Yoko were very approachable and friendly to everyone, in the movement or out. I'm not sure I know anyone who's met Strummer, but I doubt he was as universally liked in-person


I got his autograph in 1984 along with the rest of Clsh Mach 2. They weren't amazingly super friendly or anything but I thought it was cool that they hung out, talked & signed stuff for everyone who bothered to wait around for them.
Jimbo wrote:I guess I am over Graham Nash's politics. Hopelessly naive by the standards I've molded for myself these days.