60s/70s Soul Artists We Don't Like

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Re: 60s/70s Soul Artists We Don't Like

Postby toomanyhatz » 24 Sep 2010, 02:10

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How long have you known me? You don't have a suspicion which one it might be? :lol:


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Re: 60s/70s Soul Artists We Don't Like

Postby king feeb » 24 Sep 2010, 04:40

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Here the greatness of Kraftwerk is a given, but Ray and Stevie are always on trial. I simply find this to be a bit through the looking glass.


I don't think so at all. I don't see that Ray and Stevie are treated as anything but heroes here on BCB, except for the fact that we note that some of Stevie's later work is undeniably crappy (and also neither one of them can drive worth a shit!).

Also, the greatness of Kraftwerk isn't a given here. They've been the recipients of some of Fartpants' funniest insults.
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Re: 60s/70s Soul Artists We Don't Like

Postby Nolamike » 24 Sep 2010, 04:51

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Here the greatness of Kraftwerk is a given, but Ray and Stevie are always on trial.


Ray & Stevie = Awesome
Stevie Ray = Not so much.
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Re: 60s/70s Soul Artists We Don't Like

Postby mission » 24 Sep 2010, 07:15

There are, to my ears, two reasons why this genre of music performed in this time period is so mindbogglingly consistent.

One is the previously mentioned production process, which saw quality tunes get filtered through a label/studio's aesthetics, arranged by people who knew what they were doing and played by cats of impeccable levels of musicianship. And sung by people hungry with the need to be known. You had to hit it or quit it.

The other is a case of my own capacity to appreciate it, given who I am and where I come from. The more orchestrated/slicker stuff is music that is out of my realms of capability. I have no idea how these people made such sounds - they are making music I cannot make and I can't judge it with the same criteria I use to judge rock records of tunes I can conceivably reproduce. When I was playing a lot with my bands, I listened almost exclusively to Coltrane because I didn't spend any time wondering how Jones did that or that or how the fuck did he do that? I knew I could never play like that and could just relax in the sound, without listening to learn or take apart or be analytical with. Same with superfunky 70s shit or super-slick 70s shit - that shit is out of my league.

The downside is the strictures of the forms and the universally high levels of musicianship can wander over to the muddying, el-same-o-same-o end of the all-sounding-a-bit-the-same-to-me spectrum.

The great acts and great songs stick out and cannot be denied but the bulk of it is of a mystifyingly uniform high level of achievement. Like eating lasagne every night. It can sometimes get to a point where I lack the capacity to determine if anything is really good or not and, further, my incapacity to spot the dud tracks makes me question my ability to judge at all.

That may be one of the appeals of "difficult" music. The high amount of unlistenable garbage makes the bright spots brighter.
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Re: 60s/70s Soul Artists We Don't Like

Postby Geezee » 24 Sep 2010, 10:03

Count Machuki wrote:
G-Z wrote:There's no excuse, by way of example, for Take a Look at Those Cakes.


Now, hold it right there!

That's a great record.


:? :shock:
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Re: 60s/70s Soul Artists We Don't Like

Postby Count Machuki » 24 Sep 2010, 15:47

G-Z wrote:
Count Machuki wrote:
G-Z wrote:There's no excuse, by way of example, for Take a Look at Those Cakes.


Now, hold it right there!

That's a great record.


:? :shock:


Let's let BCB be the judge...

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Re: 60s/70s Soul Artists We Don't Like

Postby Geezee » 24 Sep 2010, 15:52

the title track is decent enough i suppose - very generic and run of the mill, but groovey enough I suppose - but the rest of the album is terminally dull.
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Re: 60s/70s Soul Artists We Don't Like

Postby PENK » 24 Sep 2010, 15:52

king feeb wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Here the greatness of Kraftwerk is a given, but Ray and Stevie are always on trial. I simply find this to be a bit through the looking glass.


I don't think so at all. I don't see that Ray and Stevie are treated as anything but heroes here on BCB, except for the fact that we note that some of Stevie's later work is undeniably crappy (and also neither one of them can drive worth a shit!).

Also, the greatness of Kraftwerk isn't a given here. They've been the recipients of some of Fartpants' funniest insults.


Completely agree. I can't imagine the size of the howling, pitchfork-wielding mob that'd assemble if someone criticised Ray Charles around here, but there are plenty of folks who recoil from stuff like Kraftwerk.
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Re: 60s/70s Soul Artists We Don't Like

Postby Count Machuki » 24 Sep 2010, 16:01

G-Z wrote:the title track is decent enough i suppose - very generic and run of the mill, but groovey enough I suppose - but the rest of the album is terminally dull.


Alright, you've said your piece...

;)
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Re: 60s/70s Soul Artists We Don't Like

Postby toomanyhatz » 10 Feb 2018, 08:11

This is the kind of stuff I wish we were still talking about. Some great posts here.
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Re: 60s/70s Soul Artists We Don't Like

Postby Pansy Puff » 10 Feb 2018, 08:43

toomanyhatz wrote:This is the kind of stuff I wish we were still talking about. Some great posts here.

A lot of bloody nonsense too.
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Re: 60s/70s Soul Artists We Don't Like

Postby Rayge » 10 Feb 2018, 09:13

toomanyhatz wrote:This is the kind of stuff I wish we were still talking about. Some great posts here.


And I wasn't even here then to point out that lots of the artists discussed aren't even soul at all ;)
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Re: 60s/70s Soul Artists We Don't Like

Postby Pansy Puff » 10 Feb 2018, 09:21

University of Oxford
Dr Witek explains using examples from nursery rhymes to one of the last albums recorded by jazz saxophonist John Coltrane.

While Twinkle Twinkle Little Star has little complexity in rhythm, James Brown’s Funky Drummer has a medium amount and Coltrane’s Interstellar Space has a great deal of rhythmic complexity.

Dr Witek says: 'Out of these three, James Brown is the one that will get people on the dance floor. Twinkle Twinkle is too rhythmically predictable, while the Coltrane is not predictable at all. James Brown is a perfect balance between predictability and complexity.'

Over 60 participants from all over the world, aged between 17 and 63, took part in the web-based survey. They listened to funk drum-breaks with varying degrees of rhythmic complexity and syncopation, and then rated the extent to which the beats made them want to move, as well as how much pleasure they experienced.

The results showed that the highest ratings were for drum breaks with not too much, not too little complexity in rhythm.


JB has academic approval too.
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Re: 60s/70s Soul Artists We Don't Like

Postby The Modernist » 10 Feb 2018, 10:13

K wrote:
toomanyhatz wrote:This is the kind of stuff I wish we were still talking about. Some great posts here.

A lot of bloody nonsense too.


It was an interesting thread. The premise - that we tend to be much less critical of soul greats, is generally true in my experience, but we're kind of in denial about it. I thought JSJ's post near the beginning of the thread was spot on.

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Re: 60s/70s Soul Artists We Don't Like

Postby Goat Boy » 10 Feb 2018, 11:48

The Modernist wrote:
K wrote:
toomanyhatz wrote:This is the kind of stuff I wish we were still talking about. Some great posts here.

A lot of bloody nonsense too.


It was an interesting thread. The premise - that we tend to be much less critical of soul greats, is generally true in my experience, but we're kind of in denial about it. I thought JSJ's post near the beginning of the thread was spot on.


It's something I've thought for years.

"*insert name of white artist here* that shit is too white, man!"

I think a lot of white music fans are somewhere on the Keith Richards spectrum (heh, heh, those black cats man, heh heh heh)
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Re: 60s/70s Soul Artists We Don't Like

Postby The Modernist » 10 Feb 2018, 11:50

Goat Boy wrote:
I think a lot of white music fans are somewhere on the Keith Richards spectrum (heh, heh, those black cats man, heh heh heh)


Yep.

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Re: 60s/70s Soul Artists We Don't Like

Postby Dr Markus » 10 Feb 2018, 12:07

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Re: 60s/70s Soul Artists We Don't Like

Postby Rayge » 10 Feb 2018, 12:35

Rayge wrote:
toomanyhatz wrote:This is the kind of stuff I wish we were still talking about. Some great posts here.


And I wasn't even here then to point out that lots of the artists discussed aren't even soul at all ;)



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Re: 60s/70s Soul Artists We Don't Like

Postby Jimbo » 10 Feb 2018, 12:47

I'll tell you what I didn't like about the 60s and 70s soul music and that was the glitzy costumes and the martial dancing. To illustrate this, in a Cheech and Chong movie when they are starting a band a member comes back with uniforms, these brass-buttoned tight vesty things and Chong says "We look like fucking busboys." And, the 60s 70s soul guys looked like fucking busboys or servants dancing all in unison, all identically dressed. A hell of a statement when we were supposedly liberating ourselves.
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Re: 60s/70s Soul Artists We Don't Like

Postby fange » 10 Feb 2018, 13:17

Rayge wrote:
Rayge wrote:
toomanyhatz wrote:This is the kind of stuff I wish we were still talking about. Some great posts here.


And I wasn't even here then to point out that lots of the artists discussed aren't even soul at all ;)



Ah, nobody wants to play. Back under the bridge then. I think there's some left-over goat in the fridge...


I'm thinking of running a Soul Cup after the BCB Cup, Ray; if so, I look forward to some lively debates about what's 'the real deal' with you. :twisted:
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