Moby Grape

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Moby Grape

Postby zoomboogity » 15 Apr 2009, 07:44

Sundazed collects the bonus tracks on last year's reissues and the Vintage set from 1993:

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CD

LP (with one extra track)





[edit: thread title changed to make this thread about the band in general, not just this album]
Last edited by zoomboogity on 01 Dec 2016, 02:31, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Moby Grape - The Place And The Time (1967-68)

Postby Tactful Cactus » 15 Apr 2009, 09:29

Nice looking collection...There was a similar one available up until a few years ago, called Cross Town (?), something like that. I have it at home and for a long while it was never far from the player. Brilliant band.

What possessed them to go with that cover though? It looks like an Oasis single.

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Re: Moby Grape - The Place And The Time (1967-68)

Postby king feeb » 15 Apr 2009, 09:43

Grab it before noted cunt Matthew Katz shuts it down like he did the other reissues...
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Re: Moby Grape - The Place And The Time (1967-68)

Postby bobzilla77 » 15 Apr 2009, 17:29

Now THERE's one I'll shell out for... I wasn't all that thrilled to spend $18 x 4 to get some new songs but this is a worthwhile comp, the tracks from that I know already are very good.
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Re: Moby Grape - The Place And The Time (1967-68)

Postby Andrew Lou Goldman » 15 Apr 2009, 22:18

That cover IS fucking atrocious.
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Re: Moby Grape - The Place And The Time (1967-68)

Postby clive gash » 15 Apr 2009, 22:36

I'd be first in line for this if i didn't already have the reissues and Vintage and i think the cover is pretty cool :?

Weren't the Sundazed reissues stopped because Katz had copyright of the covers ? Why not just put new sleeves on 'em ?
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Re: Moby Grape - The Place And The Time (1967-68)

Postby zoomboogity » 15 Apr 2009, 22:44

The two photos in the gatefold are much better; I'm talking about the LP version, don't know what's in the CD booklet.

If you have Vintage, you already have a lot of this, but that collection has been out of print for so long that it's good to see this stuff all brought together for those who can't find a copy of it.

TC - Crosstalk is mostly original album tracks.

I don't think Katz has any legal standing to get in the way of this (not that that's stopped him before... allegedly). These are different versions than what appear on the first two albums, and according at the liner notes, the band members now own the publishing to these songs - I forgot what Jerry's publishing is called, but the others just use their names (Bob Mosley Music, Peter Lewis Music, etc.).

Of the non-Vintage material, two stood out for me on first listen: the alternate take on Miller's Blues (maybe better than the album version), which is the extra LP-only track; and an early version of Tongue-Tied, which appeared on Truly Fine Citizen with Don Stevenson singing. Not that Don's any slouch in the vocal department, but here Mosley sings and really rips into it, and the band is playing with more energy.

According to Peter Lewis, one of his songs here, Stop, served as inspiration for Stephen Stills to write For What It's Worth. Stills told him that he borrowed the main word (with the band stopping for a couple beats), plus the two-chord motif from Murder In My Heart For The Judge.

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Re: Moby Grape - The Place And The Time (1967-68)

Postby Matt Wilson » 16 Apr 2009, 20:02

So there's nothing on this CD which wasn't on the reissues and Vintage?
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Re: Moby Grape - The Place And The Time (1967-68)

Postby zoomboogity » 17 Apr 2009, 03:53

Lance Matthew wrote:So there's nothing on this CD which wasn't on the reissues and Vintage?


I never got the reissues, so I don't know which tracks are added on to which albums, but my guess is that there's nothing "new" here. I suppose they never recorded Dark Magic in the studio, otherwise it would probably be here too.

Here's what this new one has:

from Vintage
Looper
Rounder (studio outtake, no vocals)
The Place And The Time
Soul Stew
If You Can't Learn From My Mistakes (demo)
Skip's Song (Seeing)
Rounder (live)
Miller's Blues (live)
Changes (live)

from Vintage with variations
Sweet Ride (extended ending, no fade)
Big (no studio chatter, shorter edit - the Vintage version is probably an edit of two separate takes)
You Can Do Anything (slightly longer fadeout)

This is what's left. If you have the reissues, you can tell which is new to this release:
Indifference (audition recording)
Stop (demo)
Loosely Remembered (demo)
Bitter Wind (demo)
Seeing (Wow sessions)
What's To Choose (Wow sessions)
Miller's Blues (Wow sessions - this isn't on the CD version)
It's A Beautiful Day Today (demo)
What's To Choose (demo)
Hoochie (demo)
Looper (demo)
Soul Stew (studio outtake, no vocals)
Cockatoo Blues (Tongue-Tied) (studio outtake)

Making this list, I now see that the demo version of Bitter Wind that appears on Vintage isn't here.
Last edited by zoomboogity on 17 Apr 2009, 03:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Moby Grape - The Place And The Time (1967-68)

Postby Guy E » 17 Apr 2009, 03:55

king feeb wrote:Grab it before noted cunt Matthew Katz shuts it down like he did the other reissues...

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Re: Moby Grape - The Place And The Time (1967-68)

Postby zoomboogity » 22 Apr 2009, 02:51

I've been really enjoying this for the past week. I did an LP-to-CD dub of the non-Vintage tracks, and it makes for a good 40-minute listen. Could have done with Tongue Tied fading out a minute sooner, though.

For that matter, same goes for Sweet Ride - the version here goes on for almost six minutes, and the original version fades at pretty much the right place anyway. But it's not as though these guys couldn't jam, maaaan, as some of their live recordings of Dark Magic clearly show. In fact, they were as good at stretching out on an improv trip as anyone back then, and in many cases much better. Shame they didn't capture that more in the studio.

I'm going to stick with my "new" CD comp for a while to soak it all in first, but the whole thing on LP, with the Vintage tracks mixed in, is a great listen too. It was a smart idea for Sundazed to bring all this material together, as the overall effect seems more impressive than when everything was scattered among various releases. Most of it's the original quintet, too.

This seems to be doing pretty good at Amazon, maybe bodes well for future archive releases. Maybe the band have, or at least have access to, better live recordings than most of what floats around the trader circuit. Maybe someone recorded a few Ark rehearsals in '66 - after all, they were getting a big promotional push from the label, so it wouldn't have been for lack of funds. Home recording wasn't THAT expensive back then (at least not compared to film), it just wasn't the Done Thing. Lugging a bulky open-reel machine and two mic stands was enough for a buzzkill for most people, compared to what's available nowadays. But, as we've all seen, stuff has a way of surfacing eventually (e.g. Soft Machine 1967 Middle Earth tapes).

Which also begs the question: if anything exists, does Katz have it now? I doubt it, as he probably would've done something with it by now. Anyone in the loop who might know what's going on isn't making public knowledge of it one way or the other, which is probably wise on their part.

And, as it turns out, film footage of the Grape at Monterey Pop does exist. It was shown at a festival in LA a couple years ago, Jerry Miller was there too. Sure wish I'd gone.

I just realized something: the day I bought this, last Thursday, was ten years to the day of Skip Spence passing through. I'd gone the previous day to buy it, but was unable as the store had closed early, as was the entire block (there were, ummm, shall we say, problems that night on Sunset Boulevard). Hmmmmm....

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Re: Moby Grape - The Place And The Time (1967-68)

Postby der nister » 22 Apr 2009, 03:26

I remember reading that the 2nd disc of Wow was to be a a live concert of Grape doing 50's classics. They recorded it in one of the San Fran Ballrooms, shelved it at the last minute. The producer Dave Rubinson may be the hidden player here. He may have knowledge or actual tapes, but the Katz presence is a disincentive.

Have you checked out Freedom Highway, Grape contemporaries with an unfinished album:

http://cdbaby.com/cd/freedomhighway



Swiss RD records dedicated to lost 60's San Fran:
http://www.rd-records.com/overview.htm
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Re: Moby Grape - The Place And The Time (1967-68)

Postby Charlie O. » 22 Apr 2009, 04:30

zoomboogity wrote:Maybe the band have, or at least have access to, better live recordings than most of what floats around the trader circuit.

And hopefully any such tapes weren't stashed in Miller's basement.
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Re: Moby Grape - The Place And The Time (1967-68)

Postby zoomboogity » 22 Apr 2009, 07:42

Hopefully, at some point, whatever recordings exist have been digitized, copied and passed around to the band and a few close friends. Seeing as there's really no reason not to anymore, especially in the last decade with digital archiving made easier than ever. You don't even need a computer, a stand-alone CD recorder hooked up to your stereo will do the trick.

If Jerry had any original Grape recordings, one would hope that someone made a dub over the ensuing forty years, even if it was just a cassette back in the day. Those posters and ticket stubs were more rare, and the personal photos were one-of-a-kind, but not making a copy of an audiotape is just plain wacky... meaning it's also entirely possible!

zphage wrote:I remember reading that the 2nd disc of Wow was to be a a live concert of Grape doing 50's classics. They recorded it in one of the San Fran Ballrooms, shelved it at the last minute. The producer Dave Rubinson may be the hidden player here. He may have knowledge or actual tapes, but the Katz presence is a disincentive.


So they did record this after all? The Vintage liner notes mention this as an idea they were throwing around, with Skip suggesting they change the band name to The Cows. There's a live tape of them covering Jimmy Reed's Big Boss Man, with Mosley singing, have you heard it? It's so lo-fi, but man, does it wail. Rock bands generally weren't this wailing in 1967, and if they were, they didn't have such exquisite control over it. An album of this stuff would have been so much better. Grape Jam was so limp.

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Re: Moby Grape - The Place And The Time (1967-68)

Postby Charlie O. » 22 Apr 2009, 08:04

zoomboogity wrote:... not making a copy of an audiotape is just plain wacky... meaning it's also entirely possible!

Well, with the Grape's history of good luck and good judgment...
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Just imagine if Steeeeeeeve had mastered it...

Postby zoomboogity » 25 Jun 2009, 04:39

Listening to the LP now, finally paying more attention to the Vintage tracks, and wondering if any of you noticed they sound a little different? I can't tell if it's just better mastering or what, although the mixes on Looper and a couple others sound a little different in places. (I guess I could get out the ol' slide rule and do the A/B comparison, but right now, the very notion of actually expending the energy on it... well, things aren't leaning in that direction.)

And I changed my mind about the extended ending in Sweet Ride. That ascending half-step thing they do is kinda lame - not so much the idea, but that they don't seem to know what to do with it... which is probably why they faded it there... but after that, it kicks back in and even gets better, and by the end, it's fucking thundering. Is that Skip on the left channel doing the whammy-bar chords while Jerry is soloing on the right? Dang!

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Re: Moby Grape - The Place And The Time (1967-68)

Postby Charlie O. » 25 Jun 2009, 04:59

Worth seeing, if you haven't: the Grape in The Sweet Ride (with the deelicious Jacqueline Bissett!)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo780Z1gbXg

That Skippy - whadda ham!
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Re: Moby Grape - The Place And The Time (1967-68)

Postby zoomboogity » 19 Jul 2009, 18:22

From the front page of the Moby Grape yahoo group:

News- April 2009: Word is the band is recording a new album. Sundazed is assembling a live album from material recorded in the sixties.

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Re: Moby Grape - The Place And The Time (1967-68)

Postby Charlie O. » 19 Jul 2009, 19:24

WooHoo!
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Re: Moby Grape

Postby zoomboogity » 27 Sep 2009, 16:13

Charlie O. wrote:Worth seeing, if you haven't: the Grape in The Sweet Ride (with the deelicious Jacqueline Bissett!)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo780Z1gbXg

That Skippy - whadda ham!


Skipper and Gilligan, together again! (Check out the "beatnik" wearing sunglasses sitting at the table.)




Latest update at the Grape's yahoo group. I don't know who the person is who posted it or his association with the group, so consider the source, but Mosley's wife is a group member and didn't dispute it, so consider that source as well.

The band has recorded 16 new songs, and is currently deciding on which ones to release. I assume the band is still the original line-up (with Skip being replaced by his son Omar).

Me, I'm looking forward to hearing it, but I'll be going in with realistic expectations, especially regarding their voices. Last time I heard Peter sing, he still had it, but Jerry's and Bob's voices have gotten pretty grizzled compared to the glory days. Unless they put a LOT of effort into the recording process, maybe using Autotune, or simply work within their limitations... well, I'm just hoping for the best. I don't doubt their playing abilities, and while the songs on the Legendary Grape (Melvilles) album weren't all that, I could see them pulling a few surprises out of the hat.

As for touring... well, unless someone hands them a ton of money, or they get put on a bill with The Dead or something, I can't see them doing much outside a few West Coast gigs. Being the fanboy that I am, I'll be there.

No update on the Sundazed live '60s archival release. But knowing what these guys have been through over the years, it's understandable that they keep things like this close to their vest until it's ready to come out. Now, THIS, I really want to hear!