Black Cat Bone

Have a look at those again, Nick?!

This is something I've been meaning to say on one of these prog threads. Indulge me...

Prog is a wide genre (Yes, Henry Cow, Magma, and The Enid don't really sound alike), but in general it's pretty extreme, which is why it's so incredible that it was actually popular for a while and that groups like ELP were topping the charts and going platinum with rock versions of Mussorgsky/Ravel.

I attribute this bizarre period to people still being in sort of a hypnotic state with relation to The Beatles. The music-listening world's relation to The Beatles was one of extended infatuation. It didn't matter that they did, it all (from "It Won't Be Long" to "Michelle" to "A Day in the Life" to "I Am the Walrus" to "The Long and Winding Road") was more of less welcomed wholeheartedly. We were under their spell, and there was a sense that everything they did was a progression. Even going back to their roots with the White Album and later Let It Be was seen as a step forward, because everybody basically just wanted something to follow and fixated on them.

When The Beatles left us ("The dream is over..."), there was a gap, and the groups who had been working at progressing the mainstream of British rock -- as opposed to those who were into what was seen as niches like country-rock or hard-rock, no matter how progressive they may have been in reality -- filled it. So, for a time, people looked to groups like Yes and ELP to make the natural next steps of pushing music forward.

Nowadays, the imperative that music be forward-moving is invoked now and again (everyone says their music is the next thing or different somehow) but is, for all intents and purposes, a non-issue. People just listen to what they want to. The general public doesn't require that music move forward. The '80s was probably the last period where you could really say that the mainstream was moving forward and progressing as a whole. Somewhere around 1986, everything just stopped and people started picking and choosing what they liked. Thus began the post-modern age in popular music.

This is a long way of saying that if you want to really understand so-called prog music, it's probably best to think of The Beatles as the starting point -- things like "A Day in the Life" and "Strawberry Fields Forever" -- then to move slowly to King Crimson's "I Talk to the Wind" and The Nice's "The Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack" and Yes's "A Venture" (progressive-tinged Beatlesque pop), and maybe then start to tackle the meatier stuff like KC's "21st Century Schizoid Man", Yes's "Yours Is No Disgrace", and Genesis's "Super's Ready". If you don't take it slow like that, it's sure to sound like a bunch of noise. It's astonishing that the world was ready to embrace things like Pictures at an Exhibition and Relayer, but it's because we had been following this progressive imperative from 1965 onwards and somehow complex rock made sense for a few years.

Diamond Dog wrote:Have a look at those again, Nick?!

Damn those 'embed' codes. Sometimes they do, mostly they dont!

Billybob Dylan wrote:

Oh dear........
Dear-oh dear-oh dear-oh dear.......Oh fucking dear!

Warning !!
May induce an epileptic seizure.

I'll have to give it a while before moving onto the next.

Bish Bash Bosh wrote:

Billybob Dylan wrote:

Oh dear........
Dear-oh dear-oh dear-oh dear.......Oh fucking dear!

Warning !!
May induce an epileptic seizure.

I'll have to give it a while before moving onto the next.

I took that suggestion of Billybob's as something of a joke. It's easily one of the most hard-to-grasp of classic prog tracks. There are a lot of avowed prog fans who have issues with that track, not least because of the Minimoog solo, which sounded dated within about three years of the song's release!

It's way down the list as far as songs I'd play for someone wanting to get into prog. It took me years to accept it completely.

Quaco wrote:

Bish Bash Bosh wrote:

Billybob Dylan wrote:

Oh dear........
Dear-oh dear-oh dear-oh dear.......Oh fucking dear!

Warning !!
May induce an epileptic seizure.

I'll have to give it a while before moving onto the next.

I took that suggestion of Billybob's as something of a joke. It's easily one of the most hard-to-grasp of classic prog tracks. There are a lot of avowed prog fans who have issues with that track, not least because of the Minimoog solo, which sounded dated within about three years of the song's release!

It's way down the list as far as songs I'd play for someone wanting to get into prog. It took me years to accept it completely.

I would suppose that from a musicians perspective it would be somewhat of a delight.
But as you say.Maybe not the best introduction for a prog virgin.

Bish Bash Bosh wrote:

Quaco wrote:

Bish Bash Bosh wrote:Warning !!
May induce an epileptic seizure.

I'll have to give it a while before moving onto the next.

I took that suggestion of Billybob's as something of a joke. It's easily one of the most hard-to-grasp of classic prog tracks. There are a lot of avowed prog fans who have issues with that track, not least because of the Minimoog solo, which sounded dated within about three years of the song's release!

It's way down the list as far as songs I'd play for someone wanting to get into prog. It took me years to accept it completely.

I would suppose that from a musicians perspective it would be somewhat of a delight.
But as you say.Maybe not the best introduction for a prog virgin.

One thing about the song that I think could be appreciated somewhat intellectually by the prog virgin is the way the band plays with tempo around 6:30-7:40. They do this sort of a Zeppelin-y bit, but as they change with the chords, they speed up and slow down as well. The higher the chord, the faster they play; the lower the chord, the slower they play. It gives this strange disorienting effect. It's a nutty idea -- I'm glad somebody tried it.

Sometimes I think that's what a lot of prog is, people trying things. A lot of times, they're not emotionally stimulating, but someone had to try it sooner or later, so you can at least appreciate it on that level.

Quaco wrote:One thing about the song that I think could be appreciated somewhat intellectually by the prog virgin is the way the band plays with tempo around 6:30-7:40.

6:30-7:40. don't be ridiculous... i'll NEVER get that far!!!

really... what sort of person would recommend that to a beginner.

I'm going to try molony's next... i think he's a more trustworthy person.

although king feeb's looks seductive... but i'm scared that the picture might just be trying to lull me into a false sense of security.

quixotica wrote:

Quaco wrote:One thing about the song that I think could be appreciated somewhat intellectually by the prog virgin is the way the band plays with tempo around 6:30-7:40.

6:30-7:40. don't be ridiculous... i'll NEVER get that far!!!

(I only discovered recently that you can click farther along in the bar. I don't know if YouTube was always that way, but I only realized it recently.)

quixotica wrote:
although king feeb's looks seductive... but i'm scared that the picture might just be trying to lull me into a false sense of security.

Cosmic American Girl liked it when I perverted her mind played it for her...

Quaco wrote:

quixotica wrote:

Quaco wrote:One thing about the song that I think could be appreciated somewhat intellectually by the prog virgin is the way the band plays with tempo around 6:30-7:40.

6:30-7:40. don't be ridiculous... i'll NEVER get that far!!!

(I only discovered recently that you can click farther along in the bar. I don't know if YouTube was always that way, but I only realized it recently.)

thanks for the tip. but i think i need to put a bit of space between me and that one.

i will definitely try some of the others though at the weekend...

Quaco wrote:

quixotica wrote:6:30-7:40. don't be ridiculous... i'll NEVER get that far!!!

(I only discovered recently that you can click farther along in the bar. I don't know if YouTube was always that way, but I only realized it recently.)

Only if the bar is already filled with red (which indicates how much the clip has buffered).

Conversely, if you ever have a YouTube clip that has trouble buffering, you can pull it back, and let the red fill the rest of the bar before starting the clip again.

I've been spending entirely too much time there recently...

king feeb wrote:

Quaco wrote:

quixotica wrote:6:30-7:40. don't be ridiculous... i'll NEVER get that far!!!

(I only discovered recently that you can click farther along in the bar. I don't know if YouTube was always that way, but I only realized it recently.)

Only if the bar is already filled with red (which indicates how much the clip has buffered).

If you click further along, even if it hasn't buffered to there yet, it starts feeding that part. Try it!

Bish Bash Bosh wrote:

Quaco wrote:

Bish Bash Bosh wrote:
Oh dear........
Dear-oh dear-oh dear-oh dear.......Oh fucking dear!

Warning !!
May induce an epileptic seizure.

I'll have to give it a while before moving onto the next.

I took that suggestion of Billybob's as something of a joke. It's easily one of the most hard-to-grasp of classic prog tracks. There are a lot of avowed prog fans who have issues with that track, not least because of the Minimoog solo, which sounded dated within about three years of the song's release!

It's way down the list as far as songs I'd play for someone wanting to get into prog. It took me years to accept it completely.

I would suppose that from a musicians perspective it would be somewhat of a delight.
But as you say.Maybe not the best introduction for a prog virgin.

I started laughing and turned it off after about six seconds.

I'm going to try and work my way through some of the stuff on this thread and see if anything does click with me - on hearing, the other day, that I was about to acquire a record player, my dad offered to dig out his old King Crimson and ELP albums and pass them on - I was unaware he'd ever had any of that stuff! Unfortunately, I am still yet to hear any prog I can honestly say I like, but there is some heavy psych stuff that goes down well chez penk, so you never know.

Diamond Dog wrote:Look no further:



"Heart Of The Sunrise" Yes.

It's the granddaddy, believe me.

this is reap's pick. i tend to go for 'south side of the sky', probably because it is steve howe at his crunchiest.

Prog's always been a difficult genre for me. I suppose I didn't delve into it headlong while I was still a teenager, but hey. I have always had good luck with some early Genesis; here's a pretty decent live version of "Dancing with the Moonlit Knight" I enjoy it quite a bit.

king feeb wrote:

quixotica wrote:
although king feeb's looks seductive... but i'm scared that the picture might just be trying to lull me into a false sense of security.

Cosmic American Girl liked it when I perverted her mind played it for her...

Beware of perverts.

It is actually a lovely song. That's how these proglodytes work. They lure you in with something like this and suddenly their hooks are in you.

Just a friendly warning.

Oscar's Guide To Listener-Friendly Prog
1 Thick As A Brick Edit #1 03:01 Jethro Tull
2 Turn Of The Century 07:54 Yes
3 Theme One 03:01 Van Der Graaf Generator
4 Ripples 08:06 Genesis
5 The Spirit Of Radio 04:58 Rush
6 Cadence and Cascade 04:38 King Crimson
7 The Four Horsemen 05:53 Aphrodite's Child
8 Lucky Man 04:39 Emerson, Lake and Palmer
9 Sylvia 03:32 Focus
10 Cymbaline 04:50 Pink Floyd
11 funny ways 04:23 Gentle Giant
12 The Pot Head Pixies 03:01 Gong
13 In the Land of Grey and Pink 05:00 Caravan
14 Firth of Fifth 09:40 Steve Hackett

More than one track, I know, but it should serve your purpose.