name a respected artist...

[Penk!]

See I'd argue that the likes of Chuck D or the Wu guys are much more one-note. Very technically adept in terms of speed and flow (in fact I'm not even sure about that in Chuck D's case, he just shouts very loud most of the time), but their subject matter and ability with words pales in comparison to Lamar's.

I always found Frank Ocean pretty underwhelming too mind.

[The Modernist]

I had a look at the lyrics of 'Blacker the Berry'. They're pretty poor for the most part, but I can see he embodies some kind of anger which may be important.
I like the music in the vids TC posted because they sound like stuff I was listening to in the early 90s (Guru, The Roots, the kind of thing Talkin' Loud was releasing).

[Twang]

Pretty much everyone on this board is white though. I'm not sure we have any regular, active posters who are black.

Yeah but, as you demonstrate, you don't have to be black to consider that an artist may be important partly because of the way he addresses being black. I didn't criticize the whiteness of the posters - I read in the posts that "the people who make decisions about who is an important artist" are white people, which struck me as odd regarding an artist that primarily addresses his music to black people. They were having panels on major news networks the next day here about that Grammy's performance.

[Penk!]

I had a look at the lyrics of 'Blacker the Berry'. They're pretty poor for the most part, but I can see he embodies some kind of anger which may be important.

I know you G so I'll let you off but I think that's a bit of a lame line! The guy's lyrics have become slogans for black rights movements, for a while he was basically being posited as the mouthpiece of black America as a whole. You're not looking at hip-hop lyrics to be poetry; they rarely work on the page the same way. The reason 'The Blacker the Berry' works is not because there are beautiful images in the lyrics but because they convey the pride and the shame of black identity simultaneously, they admit to the stereotypes and the cultural pigeonholing from a position of defiance and self-awareness. And something that he is really good at is producing those miniature hooks that make hip-hop songs work so well, single lines or couplets that stick out. That particular track is full of those.

[clive gash]

What makes ...Butterfly exceptional is the interplay between the web of producers/players and Lamar. The Thundercat/Glasper/Fly Lo/Kamasi playing, with their roots in Alice Coltrane and Hip Hop, mesh with the grain of Kendrick's voice, it's another instrument. It's fitting that Guru has been mentioned because this stuff is the next step on from Digable Planets or prime ATCQ. The Untitled,Unmastered record is peak this.

Whenever I hear 'classic rap' these days it's the rawness, the hectoring and simplicity of it that sticks out. It's as frozen in time as Chuck Berry, obviously heartening, robust, good-for-you gear but...a bit old hat?

[Goat Boy]

Beats though, eh? Them beats.

Half the problem with hip hop is that the beats aren't as good as they used to be.

[clive gash]

Well it doesn't have the poetry of 'Sister' or 'Jack U Off'

[Mike Boom]

I have a problem with

I prefer his earlier funnier material

[Tactful Cactus]

I have a problem with
[Backseat Freestyle]

Then don't listen to it?

[Hugh]

I have a problem with

Is this the sheet music for The Kings Singers Straight Out Of Cambridge album?

[The Modernist]

I have a problem with

It's pretty puerile stuff to be honest, it's funny how hip-hop gets a free ride in that regard.

[The Red Heifer]

This seems a good thread to revive.

Okay here's someone who I think gets way too much critical praise - Kendrick Lamar. It seems like the serious chin stroking types,[ i] Pitchfolk [/i] and so on, are desperate to find a Bowie or Prince for the 21st century and they've anointed this guy. I get that he's far more experimental than yer average rapper, but how much really good music has he produced? Really..?
I'm willing to be dissuaded on this one, but it seems very emperor's new clothes to me.

I downloaded To Pimp A Butterfly the other week and I've listened to it a few times. Some of it's quite good but I'm amazed at the praise it received. I felt the same about Black Messiah by D'Angelo. I do think there is a generational desire from some to elevate these people into Important Artists. I also feel that the socio-political context appeals to certain kind of white, liberal music blogger

I think a lot of the praise around Black Messiah was because it was released 76 years after Voodoo.

[Penk!]

'Backseat Freestyle' is a track written from the perspective of a 16-year-old who is growing up idolising rappers and their materialistic lifestyles. Of course it is puerile and immature, and very self-aware with it.

That said it's never been a favourite of mine, but here is a theoretical analysis of just how technically accomplished and creative his rapping on the track is. I eagerly await a similar analysis of 'Me So Horny'.

[algroth]

I have a problem with

It's pretty puerile stuff to be honest, it's funny how hip-hop gets a free ride in that regard.

It doesn't, as your opinion is shared by quite a few about that track too. I think it's fine, personally, but not really because of the lyrics.

[Penk!]

Never mind Kendrick Lamar, get the film poll sorted!

[Penk!]

Mainstream hip-hop has always had a problem with immaturity and attitude. None of the greats are free of that really, and Kendrick is interesting because he approaches it in a very open and self-conscious way: he explores his own contradictions and failings in depth. The whole good kid album was an autobiographical bildungsroman.

Obviously the biggest problem for you and G is that he doesn't tick the boxes you want hip-hop to tick. Nothing wrong with that of course, but it's worthwhile trying to pinpoint or explain the issues I think.

[Tactful Cactus]

I have a problem with
[Backseat Freestyle]

Then don't listen to it?

Ah, now why didn't I think of that.

Or maybe I have to listen to stuff to discover I don't rate it? And I'm happy to give stuff more than one go. I wouldn't be listening to Trout Mask if I hadn't done that.

Its the phrase "I have a problem with..." when describing music

[Goat Boy]

Obviously the biggest problem for you and G is that he doesn't tick the boxes you want hip-hop to tick. Nothing wrong with that of course, but it's worthwhile trying to pinpoint or explain the issues I think.

Yes. He's just not funky enough for me.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect this as a basic requirement, no?

I listened to it on the way in to work again today. It starts off pretty well but after King Kunta I found myself bored and zoning out. It picks up again a bit towards the end but rhythmically I found it rather boring and predictable. I just find the beats good enough frankly.

On the plus side he is a very good rapper and the production is thick and rounded but I’ve never been one for paying 100% attention to lyrics, not even in hip hop so musically it has to pull me in and, yes, I expect funkiness. This is where I found it lacking.

[clive gash]

Why must Kendrick be infected with funk? Horrible stuff.

[Goat Boy]

Don't be daft. It's hip hop. If the beats are sub standard then I have a problem.