Nick Cave - where to start?

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Magilla
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Re: Nick Cave - where to start?

Postby Magilla » 26 Dec 2008, 21:15

Pete, I expect you'll like the more - for want of a better term "tuneful" recent stuff, as opposed to his more - for want of a better term - "raucous" '80s stuff. I recommend The Lyre Of Orpheus / Abbatoir Blues double album, last year's Dig Lazarus Dig and No More Shall We Part.

Avoid Nocturama.
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Re: Nick Cave - where to start?

Postby Tapiocahead » 26 Dec 2008, 21:29

Sir John Coan wrote:
Handel's Mapssiah wrote:The best place to start with the recent era is Let Love In.


Yep.

I'd say get that, either The Good Son or Tender Prey, and that great double album from 2004 that I can never remember the name of.

The recent MOJO has a 'how to buy' but they put the slightly dull The Boatman's Call at number one. They recommend you avoid Nocturama and Henry's Dream, tho', with which I concur (they're not bad but far from his best).


I'd take Henry's Dream over the slightly dull Boatman's Call any day if only for 'Straight To You'

I think Pete should start with Let Love In though
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Re: Nick Cave - where to start?

Postby Magilla » 26 Dec 2008, 21:48

Henry's Dream is an excellent album and is way better than The Boatman's Call.
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Re: Nick Cave - where to start?

Postby mentalist (slight return) » 26 Dec 2008, 22:58

The Firstborn Is Dead has the mighty Tupelo on it.
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Re: Nick Cave - where to start?

Postby My name is Spaulding » 27 Dec 2008, 00:10

Jeff K wrote:I would start with Abattoir Blues / The Lyre of Orpheus. It's probably his most listenable and it's full of actual pop songs.



That´s my favourite one of his. A masterpiece and a delight to get lost into.

However, I got late into Cave, and the album that sold him to me was "No more shall we part". I don´t know why it tends to be overlooked, since it contains some of his most touching moments ("Hallelujah", "God is in the house"), combined with some pretty intense ones. If it did the trick for me, I think that one is as good a place to start as any.
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Re: Nick Cave - where to start?

Postby Shagger Dave » 27 Dec 2008, 01:09

I'd say the best starting point would be Abattoir Blues/Lyre of Orpheus for the reasons Jeff K mentioned- its got more accessible arrangements, and more conventional songs, and all are really really good if not great. My personal favorite though is Let Love In (it has Red Right Hand for Christ sakes). I too came to Cave somewhat late, I first heard stuff off of The Good Son, and the first I owned was Henry's Dream, and those are both great records as far as I'm concerned. The Boatmans Call can suffer under the weight of its own mopey self-importance at times but the songs that click are outstanding. Murder Ballads is his most humorous I think, I just picture himself cracking up while writing it.
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Re: Nick Cave - where to start?

Postby Still Baron » 27 Dec 2008, 01:50

Sir John Coan wrote:
Stille Baron wrote:By definition, Literature Rock can be no better than Christian Rock.


and yer man Bob Dylan invented both.


He is in no way my man. Except for my appreciation for a fellow (and admittedly superior) bullshitter.
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Re: Nick Cave - where to start?

Postby Nick » 27 Dec 2008, 16:36

Sir John Coan wrote:The recent MOJO has a 'how to buy' but they... recommend you avoid Nocturama and Henry's Dream


Which spaz at Mojo compiled that list ? Fucking muppet. HD is probably his single best album, and Nocturama, while not great, still has three or four corkers on it.
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Re: Nick Cave - where to start?

Postby mission » 29 Dec 2008, 12:21

I could very well have been that muppet; it mirrors my tastes almost perfectly. Cave and the Bad Seeds gave over the production of Henry's Dream to the guy who did a stack of Neil Young recordings, Briggs from memory. And they have complained about it ever since. They didn't enjoy the process and Cave reckons the album suffered as a result.

I find myself only ever regularly listening to Let Love In and recommend it.
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Re: Nick Cave - where to start?

Postby secondhandsocks » 29 Dec 2008, 13:19

Nick wrote:I started with Henry's Dream, and it's still my favourite of his albums. A good mix of his trademark grotesque Southern Gothic tales, gory murder ballads, and sentimental love songs.


What he said.

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Re: Nick Cave - where to start?

Postby Velvis » 29 Dec 2008, 13:33

I agree with Abattoir Blues/The Lyre of Orpheus.

Critics of Cave point out his tendency toward literary pretension. Look to "The Carny" for an example of his worst excess in that direction. But look at "Tupelo" for an example of the use of literary techniques (biblical allegory applied to rock history) to create masterful rock. With a Bo Diddley beat, no less. Don't judge the guy by his worst tendencies. He can also be funny in the same way that Dylan is. And "literary" is a pretty broad term. Cave moves all over the literary map, and includes true crime, the horror genre, the Bible, poetry, and Greek tragedy among his literary touchstones. He expressed a fondness for the adventure novels of Edgar Rice Burroughs in a recent interview. Also add a generous helping of Johnny Cash and Jim Morrison.

And the band is amazing.
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Re: Nick Cave - where to start?

Postby Neige » 29 Dec 2008, 14:09

Jeff K wrote:I would start with Abattoir Blues / The Lyre of Orpheus. It's probably his most listenable and it's full of actual pop songs. Tender Prey is his best album but maybe not the one you'd want to start off with. After those two, I would choose The Good Son. He was really starting to mature as a songwriter with that album and it also contains The Ship Song, still his best ballad.


My three picks of the crop as well... but I would place The Good Son above Tender Prey myself.
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Re: Nick Cave - where to start?

Postby Geezee » 29 Dec 2008, 14:45

This does seem to pop up quite often -

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=77827&p=2103832#p2103832

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=71065&start=0&hilit=nocturama#p1927721

and i know i've elaborated at length elsewhere, but just to summarise:

Live Seeds: best place to start, has the searing versions of Tupelo, From Her to Eternity, New Morning, Mercy Seat, Ship Song etc

No More Shall We Part: by some stretch his best and most consistent album since the Live Seeds tour, with Hallelujah, Oh Lord and 15ft of Pure White Snow plus other songs of pure gold - don't listen to detractors here, it's excellent, and blends Blixa's twilight performances with Ellis' emerging role perfectly.

Let Love In: again covers some excellent territory not on the Live Seeds album - Do You Love Me is devastating and Red Right Hand still drips of the blood that the subsequent Murder Ballads tried (and failed) to shed.

Good Son: I always see Good Son and Tender Prey as brother and sister, and I think should be seen together making a mammoth double album that far outstrips the incredibly overrated Lyre of Orpheus. Ship Song should be enough to convince, but also Foi Na Cruz, Good Son and Lucy (which also is done very well by Shane MacGowan elsewhere) are excellent,.

Tender Prey: the two Mercy songs are awesome in their contrasting perspectives, though New Morning is treated better on the live album.

Boatman's Call: not essential if you get NMSWP as it covers some of the same territory, but contains some excellent songwriting - especially Are You the One and Into My Arms. This is basically NMSWP minus the Bad Seeds, which is not a good thing.


The rest are optional - Abbatoir/Lyre of Orphus has the excellent Breathless and There She Goes but far too much literal superfluousness; Dig Lazarus Dig has the funky We Call Upon the Author but little else; Nocturama suffers from the Da Capo syndrome of an overlong final song though it has a couple of nice moments (Right out of my Hand); Murder Ballads has Stagger Lee, but this is done far better live (and there is a new live album coming in the new year); and Kicking Against the Pricks has the very good The Singer but is inconsistent (as are many of his cover versions eg. In the Ghetto).
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Re: Nick Cave - where to start?

Postby brotherlouie » 29 Dec 2008, 15:02

G-Z wrote:No More Shall We Part: by some stretch his best and most consistent album since the Live Seeds tour, with Hallelujah, Oh Lord and 15ft of Pure White Snow plus other songs of pure gold - don't listen to detractors here, it's excellent, and blends Blixa's twilight performances with Ellis' emerging role perfectly.


Nice to see this LP getting some respect. It was the first release after I picked up the best of and Murder Ballads and I loved it. Hallelujah pure spook and others are just great, too. Recommended.Into My arms is, of course, on the Best of that Pete already has.

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Re: Nick Cave - where to start?

Postby Jeff K » 29 Dec 2008, 15:11

I don't usually recommend live albums as a starting point but Live Seeds is fantastic and gives you a nice overview of the early Bad Seeds work. It's one of my favorite live albums.
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Re: Nick Cave - where to start?

Postby Bungo the Mungo » 29 Dec 2008, 15:24

G-Z wrote:Good Son: I always see Good Son and Tender Prey as brother and sister, and I think should be seen together making a mammoth double album that far outstrips the incredibly overrated Lyre of Orpheus. Ship Song should be enough to convince, but also Foi Na Cruz, Good Son and Lucy (which also is done very well by Shane MacGowan elsewhere) are excellent.


'Foi Na Cruz' is great - haven't heard that for ages. I have to dig out the album again, and soon. It's a beaut.

'Lament' was always my favourite - sweet, heavy stuff.

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Re: Nick Cave - where to start?

Postby Jeff K » 29 Dec 2008, 15:27

Tender Prey & The Good Son as brother and sister? I love that analogy!
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Re: Nick Cave - where to start?

Postby Geezee » 29 Dec 2008, 16:44

By the way, I think the best song Nick Cave has written in the last 10 years or so is Crazy Love, performed to stellar effect by Marianne Faithful on Before the Poison. Beautifully tender. I would still kill to hear him perform it himself.
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Re: Nick Cave - where to start?

Postby Magilla » 29 Dec 2008, 19:55

Jeff K wrote:I don't usually recommend live albums as a starting point but Live Seeds is fantastic and gives you a nice overview of the early Bad Seeds work. It's one of my favorite live albums.


I saw 'em on that tour and they were fucking superb.
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Re: Nick Cave - where to start?

Postby Michael Andrew Lownsdale » 23 May 2017, 22:08

Diamond Dog wrote:
Prof Cratchit wrote:I'd start off with the Best Of.

Image

and take it from there.


I already have that. I'm looking for a little more detail.


And...?