Scorpions' "Virgin Killers" image censored

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doctorlouie
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Scorpions' "Virgin Killers" image censored

Postby doctorlouie » 08 Dec 2008, 15:50

Did anyone else catch this on the Today programme?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7770456.stm

Wikipedia child image censored

A decision by a number of UK internet providers to block a Wikipedia page showing an image of a naked girl has angered users of the popular site.

The blocked page of the online encyclopaedia shows an album cover of German heavy metal band Scorpions, released in 1976.

Internet providers acted after online watchdog the Internet Watch Foundation warned them its picture may be illegal.

The IWF said it was a "potentially illegal child sexual abuse image".

Some volunteers who run Wikipedia said it was not for the foundation to censor one of the web's most popular sites.

They also argued that the image was available in a number of books and had never been ruled illegal.

But the IWF, which warns internet providers about possible images that could be linked to child abuse, said it had consulted the police before making its decision.

The foundation's list of proscribed sites is widely used by British internet service providers to filter out images showing child abuse and other illegal content.

As a result, the addition of the Scorpions Wikipedia page has made it inaccessible to the majority of British internet users.

The IWF, which lists the BBC, News International and internet companies AOL (UK) and Ask among its members, said as many as 95% of British users would now be unable to access the page.

Wikipedia volunteer David Gerard said he and fellow users were angry that as well as the photo, the text on the page had been blocked.

"Blocking text is a whole new thing - it's the first time they've done this on such a visible site," he said.

Mr Gerard also told BBC Radio 4's Today programme the album cover was still available as part of the band's box set and could be viewed on retail websites.

"When we asked the Internet Watch Foundation why they blocked Wikipedia and not Amazon, apparently the decision was 'pragmatic', which we think means that Amazon had money and would sue them, whereas we're an educational charity."

Access blocked

Susan Robertson, of the IWF, said the image could potentially contravene the Protection of Children Act 1978.

"We only act on the reports we receive, and as I understand it, the only report we received regarding this content, as of Friday, was the content on Wikipedia," she said.

Ms Robertson also said the IWF needed to "take a view" on the images available on Amazon with its "analyst team and police partners".

Jay Walsh, a spokesman for the Wikimedia Foundation, which manages the encyclopaedia, said the removal of the page also appeared to have stopped thousands of UK users from editing articles on Wikipedia, which allows readers to self-edit its pages.

"It appears that there's a large number of editors - I can't say all - who appear to have access issues," he said.

The IWF spokeswoman said a reader had brought the image to the foundation's attention last week and it had contacted the police before adding the page to their list.

Wikipedia is one of the world's most popular websites. It is a multi-lingual online database written, edited and funded largely by its users. It has 2.6m articles in English alone.

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Re: Scorpions' "Virgin Killers" image censored

Postby the hesitant weasel » 08 Dec 2008, 15:54

wonder if they'll get 'round to the Tit Chewy one or the one were she's just about to blow the Doberman.........
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Re: Scorpions' "Virgin Killers" image censored

Postby Thesiger » 08 Dec 2008, 15:58

brotherlouie wrote:Did anyone else catch this on the Today programme?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7770456.stm

Internet providers acted after online watchdog the Internet Watch Foundation warned them its picture may be illegal.


So in the opinion of some moral-crusading lobbyists, an item available commercially for 32 years may be "illegal". Would that not be something for the courts to decide; in a judgement against the said Scorpions and their record company?

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Scorpions cover here http://www.metaldreams.com/fotos/Scorpi ... rCover.jpg
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Re: Scorpions' "Virgin Killers" image censored

Postby Jimbly » 08 Dec 2008, 15:59

Dont think that cover was used in the UK, it was a group picture when I worked in a record shop many moons ago
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Re: Scorpions' "Virgin Killers" image censored

Postby Kinkhurt » 08 Dec 2008, 16:07

Jeemo wrote:Dont think that cover was used in the UK, it was a group picture when I worked in a record shop many moons ago


Shades used to do it on import in the early 80's. Wait till they start digging into the NWOBHM catalog - the first 2 Wytchfinder General albums with the sacrificed page 3 models splayed over gravestones were notorious at the time
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Re: Scorpions' "Virgin Killers" image censored

Postby Errant Panda » 08 Dec 2008, 16:07

I remember reading about this in Kerrang or similar many moons ago. The cover was changed donkeys years ago, but then so was Appetite For Destruction. You certainly couldn't publish it these days - but then didn't Cream or some other Eric Clapton band have a similarly dodgy album cover back in the day?
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Re: Scorpions' "Virgin Killers" image censored

Postby Deebank » 08 Dec 2008, 16:10

Errant Panda wrote:I remember reading about this in Kerrang or similar many moons ago. The cover was changed donkeys years ago, but then so was Appetite For Destruction. You certainly couldn't publish it these days - but then didn't Cream or some other Eric Clapton band have a similarly dodgy album cover back in the day?


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Re: Scorpions' "Virgin Killers" image censored

Postby harvey k-tel » 08 Dec 2008, 16:11

The original cover is still visible on Wikipedia outside the UK.
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Re: Scorpions' "Virgin Killers" image censored

Postby Deebank » 08 Dec 2008, 16:15

The guy from Wikipedia described the cover as awful and crass, while defending their right to display it.

What (if you can describe it 'tastefully') does the cover depict. I don't especially want to go looking for it now :)
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Re: Scorpions' "Virgin Killers" image censored

Postby Kinkhurt » 08 Dec 2008, 16:17

Harvey X-Mas wrote:The original cover is still visible on Wikipedia outside the UK.


the filtering they've done is totally inadequate if you're in the UK and go to google images the place is littered with copies of the LP cover.
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Re: Scorpions' "Virgin Killers" image censored

Postby doctorlouie » 08 Dec 2008, 16:19

Sweet Baby Deebank wrote:What (if you can describe it 'tastefully') does the cover depict. I don't especially want to go looking for it now :)


It's a naked pre-pubescent girl, facing forward, with a glass-shatter type thing over her genitals. Dodgy, to be honest. I can't imagine anyone would use it these days.

Most of the images mentioned above are of "of-age" women (however tasteless).

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Re: Scorpions' "Virgin Killers" image censored

Postby Thesiger » 08 Dec 2008, 16:21

Sweet Baby Deebank wrote:The guy from Wikipedia described the cover as awful and crass, while defending their right to display it.

What (if you can describe it 'tastefully') does the cover depict. I don't especially want to go looking for it now :)


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Re: Scorpions' "Virgin Killers" image censored

Postby Errant Panda » 08 Dec 2008, 16:22

Sweet Baby Deebank wrote:The guy from Wikipedia described the cover as awful and crass


And he's right, to be honest...one wonders if no one had second thoughts at any time during the production process...

I have no idea whether it's technically illegal - but there was that case where that newsreader got questioned after developing photos of her baby in the bath so who can say?
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Re: Scorpions' "Virgin Killers" image censored

Postby JQW » 08 Dec 2008, 16:37

The page is blocked from here - all I get is an otherwise blank page with the message "Object not found", par for the course for Orange.
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Re: Scorpions' "Virgin Killers" image censored

Postby bobzilla77 » 08 Dec 2008, 17:33

It IS pretty shocking. I remember someone had an import copy when I was a teenager. Way beyond Smell The Glove and considering the sexualized nature of the pose, yes possibly illegal.

I don't usually go for censorship online but child sexual abuse is so horrific I don't have a problem drawing the line there.
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Re: Scorpions' "Virgin Killers" image censored

Postby Underwater » 08 Dec 2008, 17:53

Censorship in any form is unacceptable.
This case is just laughable.
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Re: Scorpions' "Virgin Killers" image censored

Postby doctorlouie » 08 Dec 2008, 17:56

Underwinter wrote:Censorship in any form is unacceptable.


No it's not. Whatever the merits of this case (and I think they have a point, though a clumsily executed one), moral relativism is not a strong case. Something's aren't right. And of they're not right...

Also I wouldn't claim any "artistic merit" defence, which a piece of literature like Lolita might be worthy of.

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Re: Scorpions' "Virgin Killers" image censored

Postby Billybob Dylan » 08 Dec 2008, 18:37

Maybe they'll outlaw heavy metal music altogether!
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Re: Scorpions' "Virgin Killers" image censored

Postby Beno » 08 Dec 2008, 21:35

I've never seen that album cover before. It really is very shocking. There'd be an outcry if someone came up with that cover today, and rightly so. Were attitudes really so different back then that people even thought this was acceptable even if just for the shock value. However nasty it is though I don't think it should be airbrushed out of history.

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Re: Scorpions' "Virgin Killers" image censored

Postby Mr Maps » 08 Dec 2008, 21:46

brotherlouie wrote:Also I wouldn't claim any "artistic merit" defence, which a piece of literature like Lolita might be worthy of.


I never understood the problem with this book. It's a cautiuonary tale, surely.
Two characters die and it doesn't end well for the others either.
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