Black Cat Bone

The Modernist wrote:

Dr. E. PLATE wrote:

The Modernist wrote:Bowie used to be quite underappreciated on BCB. I used to feel in a minority defending him back then. These days we're more balanced in our view of him.

As for NY I think he offers something quite unique and valuable, I get the love from that viewpoint, but I don't think he's a particular strong songwriter.

I think he's every bit as good a songwriter as Bowie.

I think I'd struggle to name 10 NY songs that have really impacted upon the wider public consciousness.

Me too. But I'd be able to name 10 NY songs that show he's a very good songwriter!

The Modernist wrote:I think I'd struggle to name 10 NY songs that have really impacted upon the wider public consciousness.

I think I can come up with 10 pretty easily.

'Mr. Soul'
'Cinnamon Girl'
'Heart of Gold'
'Ohio'
'The Needle and the Damage Done'
'Old Man'
'Like A Hurricane'
'Hey Hey, My My (Into the Black)'
'Harvest Moon'
'Over and Over'
'Rockin' in the Free World'

I'd say all of these have pretty much become rock standards, beloved all over the world.

'Mr. Soul', 'Ohio' and 'Over and Over'?

Not sure about 'Hey, Hey...' either.

Mr Soul hardly qualifies as a great song, it might be a great performance. But it's basically just a garage song that heavily leans on 'Satisfaction'. I like it as a record, but come on..
You're on safer ground with the rest of the list, but I'd still question some of it. Do people really like "Rockin' in the Free World" that much?

You may be right, but i remember hearing even these 3 a lot on the classic rock stations. 'Over and Over' especially was a much loved track in Melbourne when it came out, as was the whole Ragged Glory album.

The Modernist wrote:Mr Soul hardly qualifies as a great song, it might be a great performance. But it's basically just a garage song that heavily leans on 'Satisfaction'. I like it as a record, but come on..
You're on safer ground with the rest of the list, but I'd still question some of it. Do people really like "Rockin' in the Free World" that much?

Are they great songs, that's a different question. 'Rockin' definitely made it well into the public consciousness though, i think. Got a lot of radio play and on MTV.

I'd never heard 'Over and Over' till five minutes ago! It just sounds like very mainstream rock of the time. Not something I'd base any claims of artistic greatness on. But Neil Young has always had a pass on BCB, he's not held to the same scrutiny we give others for some reason.

No, 'Rockin' in the Free World' got heaps of exposure on MTV and other music video type shows.

The Modernist wrote:I'd never heard 'Over and Over' till five minutes ago! It just sounds like very mainstream rock of the time. Not something I'd base any claims of artistic greatness on. But Neil Young has always had a pass on BCB, he's not held to the same scrutiny we give others for some reason.

That's just because you were too busy with your Charlatans and Inner City singles to listen to it, G! The Ragged Glory album and its singles made a big impression in heaps countries and revitalized NY's image for the '90s kids.

fange wrote:No, 'Rockin' in the Free World' got heaps of exposure on MTV and other music video type shows.

Yeah I know. I thought you were talking about Mr Soul, which is why I deleted.

fange wrote:

The Modernist wrote:I'd never heard 'Over and Over' till five minutes ago! It just sounds like very mainstream rock of the time. Not something I'd base any claims of artistic greatness on. But Neil Young has always had a pass on BCB, he's not held to the same scrutiny we give others for some reason.

That's just because you were too busy with your Charlatans and Inner City singles to listen to it, G! The Ragged Glory album and its singles made a big impression in heaps countries and revitalized NY's image for the '90s kids.

Just looked it up on wiki and it didn't chart anywhere! Not even a minor hit.

Ragged Glory?

Let's see - wiki says it reached no. 20 in Canada, 15 in the UK and 31 in the US.

And of the singles, 'Mansion on the Hill' got to #3 and 'Over and Over' #33 in the US.

That's still pretty successful and in the public eye for my money; and rock music was still 'big' then, you know.

No, 'Over and Over' !

fange wrote:Ragged Glory?

'Over and Over' #33 in the US.

Only in the specialist rock chart, not in the main Billboard one.

The Modernist wrote:No, 'Over and Over' !

You're such a cynic! Just because it wasn't a number 1 US hit, doesn't mean it didn't make a big impression on a lot of people.

fange wrote:

The Modernist wrote:No, 'Over and Over' !

You're such a cynic! Just because it wasn't a number 1 US hit, doesn't mean it didn't make a big impression on a lot of people Aussies living in Hong Kong.

I actually think Neil Young's a better songwriter. So much declaiming and speechifying in Bowie's songs. You never get stuff that seems convincingly muddle-headed and spontaneous like "and the morning sun has yet to climb my hood-ornament." Always the grand statement with Bowie.

But I still vote Bowie because I'm fine with style over substance if the style's good enough (--and I'm a Murican dammit--what a thread). No dancing to Neil Young songs, is there?

The Modernist wrote:I think I'd struggle to name 10 NY songs that have really impacted upon the wider public consciousness.

Seems to me that Young and Bowie are pretty equal on this count. Both have a pretty durable slate of hits that the average layperson would know. Both have an even longer list of “important” songs that an active fan could cite.

I think that which continent you are on when you ponder this question probably matters. It may be hard for people in the UK to get how massive Young’s impact is in the US, and vice-versa (though to a lesser degree after Bowie’s death than before it).

I think both of these guys are stand-ins for the platonic ideal of how a musical artist ‘does it the right way’ in their respective country of greater influence. People in the UK see Bowie as the exemplar of a great artist. In the US there is little desire for other artists to be more like Bowie (too much attention to artifice). Young’s sense of authenticity and personal integrity are closer to the standard we look for.

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:

The Modernist wrote:I think I'd struggle to name 10 NY songs that have really impacted upon the wider public consciousness.

Seems to me that Young and Bowie are pretty equal on this count. Both have a pretty durable slate of hits that the average layperson would know. Both have an even longer list of “important” songs that an active fan could cite.
.

I don't think Young has written anything as famous as 'Space Oddity', 'Life on Mars', 'Starman' or 'Heroes'. 'Heart of Gold' comes closest.

Mind you I also don't think that matters when measuring an artist's worth, so I don't know why I introduced it in the first place!