Not the BCB 100 - John Lennon solo

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Molony

Postby Molony » 05 Jan 2007, 19:59

Excellent post Neverknows...

Album: Imagine
Song: 'Gimme Some Truth'

Sneelock

Postby Sneelock » 05 Jan 2007, 20:15

album: Imagine by a hair. it's really been growing on me these last few years. it's not a pretty sight.
I love "mother" but I guess I really like the chocolates.

song:

win: oh my love
Place: gimme some truth
show: steel and glass
Last edited by Sneelock on 05 Jan 2007, 21:16, edited 1 time in total.

K

Postby K » 05 Jan 2007, 20:29

Great post

ALBUM: Plastic Ono Band
SONG: Isolation

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Postby toomanyhatz » 05 Jan 2007, 20:37

Very well said, Fred. My favorite post I've ever disagreed with this vehemently. The sound may have been gone, but dissolution and regret was always part of his music. "Musos on coke" sound or no, it's all over Walls and Bridges. The parting with Yoko inspired some great songs- Nobody Loves You (When You're Down and Out), Bless You, the gorgeous #9 Dream. Even the supposedly sunny Double Fantasy had I'm Losing You. My god, even on the Oldies record, he turns Stand By Me into a brilliantly sung, passionate paen to Yoko. Better in the demo versions and studio jams? Maybe, but I've never had a problem with the sound of Walls and Bridges. Up to date, but in a (to me) un-selfconsious way. And I love hearing him directing the band on the box set. Proves that whatever image he may have tried to create of himself as a "spontaneous" musician who put feel first, he was completely in control and knew what he wanted and how to get it. He may have hid behind the sound, but lyrically it's about as honest and personal as coke music can sound. It's my second favorite after Plastic Ono Band.

Thanks for mentioning the singles too, there are a few that are near as good as anything he did as a Beatle- Cold Turkey, Instant Karma and Happy X-mas (War is Over) in particular. Disagree if you will (and many will, I'm sure) but to me he beats Paul as a singles artist, at least for the first half of the 70s.

Album - Plastic Ono Band
Song - #9 Dream
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Postby Quaco » 05 Jan 2007, 21:07

Nice one, Neverknows. As with all great posts, even though I disagree with a lot of it, I still like the way you made your argument and I can allow you your space. It's the unsubstantiated single-sentence things that make my blood boil!

What do I disagree with? For one thing, I think Walls and Bridges is a true solo album. On that album, Yoko was merely part of the history, she was not present. Jesse Ed Davis had more to do with that album than she did. I also am not sure how much Yoko actually had to do with Plastic Ono Band, Imagine, and Mind Games. If Yoko had written something or made a significant contribution, I'm sure John would have been only too happy to proclaim it to the world. As it is, we have "Wind" on the first album and a single co-write on the second. I don't really know the depth of her collaboration on these three albums. (Some Time in NYC and Double Fantasy are of course collaborative efforts, as they are credited.) I know John was constantly affected by her presence, which was constant, but he still wrote those songs.

I agree with what you're saying about him spending his solo career hiding. I sometimes feel that the White Album is the only real, unadulterated Lennon stuff there is. Before that, he was being John Beatle or highly medicated; after that, he was under the spell of Yoko. (I'm a Yoko supporter and I try to keep in mind the undeniable love they apparently shared, but even I think he lost too much of himself in her.)

I also think "Woman Is the Nigger of the World" is about the best thing he did in his solo years. I have learned to accept and even love that New York sax sound in small doses, especially on Beatle solo and related records.

I think you make a great point about Lennon working best to a deadline and a brief. "Give Peace a Chance", "Imagine", "Mother", "Instant Karma!" ... these were powerful things that had an effect greater than what would necessarily have come simply from the fact that he was an ex-Beatle. "What Is Life" and "Maybe I'm Amazed" didn't have that kind of effect on people.

I grew up loving John's solo work. I didn't know better. To me, he was the voice, even more than McCartney. When he died, I sort of put him out of my mind, and to this day, I rarely listen to his stuff. Most of it has a certain sound to it. It sounds so much like how I felt when I was 10 years old. Lennon's records are the depth of Apple-ness. I just listened to Life with the Lions with a friend of mine, and I think it was a real bonding experience for us, sharing something that was so "Apple". When I say depth, I don't mean in terms of artistic merit, but in terms of getting at the essence of what it felt like to be a Beatle at that time. You can almost smell it. Everything with that off-white color to it. The sound of John and Yoko's voices -- you just know everybody in the Apple camp harkened to these voices almost religiously, like a child listens through the door at his parents arguing. Anything that John or Yoko said made an impact on these people, positive or negative or somewhere in between.
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Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 05 Jan 2007, 22:18

Sneelock wrote:win: oh my love


Before I wrap my brain completely around neverknows' excellent opening salvo and the thoughful responses it has already gotten, I'd just like to say how nice it is to see someone hone in on what is probably among the half-dozen lovliest songs Lennon ever lent his name to - with the Beatles or without. When I opened the thread I fully intended to use it as an example of his greatness as a solo act. As usual you beat me to it.
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Postby king feeb » 05 Jan 2007, 22:22

I'm late to the party (again! :x ). There isn't much I could add to Fred's and Jimmy's excellent posts and the others also...


...so I'll just rattle my jewelry.

Album: Imagine
Song: "Well Well Well"
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Postby My name is Spaulding » 05 Jan 2007, 22:41

king feeb wrote:I'm late to the party (again! :x ). There isn't much I could add to Fred's and Jimmy's excellent posts and the others also...


I was late to the party even befre this thread was satrted. I wish I could be able to express my many feelings about Beatle related stuff with half the brilliance contained in Fred´s post.

Now this is almost as good as his post about McCartney´s "Chaos and creation " (actually, it was about himself and the feelings that album had triggered).... I bet he has an amazing post about Ringo in him :)
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Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 05 Jan 2007, 22:57

Okay..now I've re-read all of the posts so far and done the requisite brain-wrapping. The idea I find myself most wanting to address is this one by neverknows:

Yes, John Lennon spent 12 years pretending to bare it all while in fact trying to hide himself.


I think it is important to note that evasion is among the most human of all acts. How we evade and when we choose to (or feel we have no choice but to) is a profound measure of who we are.

I love Lennon's solo work as deeply as I love his work with the Beatles. The reason I feel such a pull to him is that no other artist in pop music has ever offered up so much of their humanity to me as a listener. When I was young and felt alone and disconnected, Lennon's voice came off of my turntable and spoke to me with real intimacy - even if it did only go one way. Now as I get older and see how rare meaningful human contact can truly be, his music seems even more remarkable. He told me things about his life even close friends seem unable to bring themselves to utter.

Listen to his solo work. It is all there. The full range of humanity. Love, pain, anger, jealousy, pretention, naivete, weariness, hope, joy, resignation, weakness, strength, laughter, wisdom, idiocy, stridence, gentleness, yearning, peacefulness, cleverness, ego, sincerity, disingenuousness, wistfulness, attention seeking, confidence, boredom, empathy, destructiveness.... and of course evasion.

That's not a man pretending to bare it all while he is really hiding. That's a man baring almost everything...including his desire to hide at least some little private part of himself away from our view.

Album: Imagine
Song: Number 9 Dream
Last edited by Davey the Fat Boy on 05 Jan 2007, 22:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Quaco » 05 Jan 2007, 22:58

I am just listening to McCartney at the moment. I really love this album. So natural, effortless. Sure, it's not Abbey Road, but who cares. McCartney was never destined to go prog. He was too firmly grounded in Fifties rock and roll to become the rock and roll Mozart some people credited him with being.

Anyway ... I'm a bit pissed at Lennon for his nearsightedness when it came to McCartney's first two solo albums. McCartney looked up to him, and I'm sure on some level he knew it. He probably hurt McCartney with his disparaging comments about McCatney and Ram. It's not that I feel for McCartney personally -- that's between the two of them -- it's that McCartney was doing the exact thing Lennon was doing: getting back to a simpler, grittier style, hanging out with who he really likes (his wife), and basically stripping away all the layers of Beatle bullshit. Lennon should have praised McCartney to the skies for not doing another Abbey Road. I somehow think that with a little more kindness from his idol, McCartney might have played his career out differently in the Seventies. We might all have benefited.
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The Modernist

Postby The Modernist » 05 Jan 2007, 23:18

I don't want to get arsey, but surely there are more deserving candidates for the not 100. I have been struck by the lack of people from the jazz, soul and funk fields so far.

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Postby My name is Spaulding » 05 Jan 2007, 23:21

Corporal Moddie! wrote:I don't want to get arsey, but surely there are more deserving candidates for the not 100. I have been struck by the lack of people from the jazz, soul and funk fields so far.


Not much calypso either.
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Postby Beno » 05 Jan 2007, 23:21

Corporal Moddie! wrote:I don't want to get arsey, but surely there are more deserving candidates for the not 100. I have been struck by the lack of people from the jazz, soul and funk fields so far.

You can stop pretending to be cool now. Just admit it, you want to see Visage get their dues.

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Postby Jeff K » 05 Jan 2007, 23:23

Beno wrote:
Corporal Moddie! wrote:I don't want to get arsey, but surely there are more deserving candidates for the not 100. I have been struck by the lack of people from the jazz, soul and funk fields so far.

You can stop pretending to be cool now. Just admit it, you want to see Visage get their dues.


Actually, I think he's disapointed they didn't do Ringo instead.
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Postby Bungo the Mungo » 05 Jan 2007, 23:23

Beno wrote:
Corporal Moddie! wrote:I don't want to get arsey, but surely there are more deserving candidates for the not 100. I have been struck by the lack of people from the jazz, soul and funk fields so far.

You can stop pretending to be cool now. Just admit it, you want to see Visage get their dues.


I think he should start a Visage thread. I'll keep him sweet with one devoted to Alexander O'Neal.

The Modernist

Postby The Modernist » 05 Jan 2007, 23:26

Beno wrote:
Corporal Moddie! wrote:I don't want to get arsey, but surely there are more deserving candidates for the not 100. I have been struck by the lack of people from the jazz, soul and funk fields so far.

You can stop pretending to be cool now. Just admit it, you want to see Visage get their dues.


..well there is that as well :lol:

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Postby NMB » 06 Jan 2007, 00:24

Excellent posts on this thead from two of my favourite posters. When the petty bitching gets going and I think "fuck this" I remember you chaps and so here I still am. I bet you're all thrilled.

Nothing meaningful to add except:

album: Imagine with a couple of presses on the skip button

song: Oh Yoko never ever fails to cheer me up. If I could ever write a song to my own wife that so definitively expresss how good she makes me feel then that's my duty as a husband done and I can devote myself to watching football down the pub thereafter.
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Postby My name is Spaulding » 06 Jan 2007, 00:28

None More Black wrote:Excellent posts on this thead from two of my favourite posters.


Both Moddie and myself are very moved by your words. Thank you
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Postby NMB » 06 Jan 2007, 00:33

Captain Spaulding wrote:
None More Black wrote:Excellent posts on this thead from two of my favourite posters.


Both Moddie and myself are very moved by your words. Thank you


You're welcome but I was of course referring to <name withheld> and myself.

If I remember correctly my very first post on BCB called you my favourite uncle. Won't that do instead?
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Postby My name is Spaulding » 06 Jan 2007, 00:59

None More Black wrote:If I remember correctly my very first post on BCB called you my favourite uncle.


Oh, yes, your good olod days. It all went downhill from there. :)
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