Musical taste or virtue signalling?

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Purgatory Brite
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Musical taste or virtue signalling?

Postby Purgatory Brite » 04 Nov 2018, 11:58

I've been called out by the Modernist to defend my statement in the 70s Cup matches that voting for a track from Brazil feels like virtue signalling. Of course, virtue signalling is a euphemism for hypocrisy.

I always been suspicious of those that laud the music of other cultures over their own, in order I suppose to show their erudition and more refined tastes. To claim that tribal or ethnic music from Africa or South America is somehow superior to or more authentic than western popular music always smacks of cultural appropriation. The most obvious example on BCB is when middle-aged,white men endorse the music for Fela Kuti, an artist whose music had resonance as a form political protest in Nigeria in the 70s. It strikes me that those who now praise him do so out of a need for a reflected sense of righteousness or even political correctness. To draw a parallel do we say that Phil Ochs, a more overtly political artist, is a better singer or songwriter than Bob Dylan?
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Re: Musical taste or virtue signalling?

Postby yomptepi » 04 Nov 2018, 12:46

Are you calling G a pseud?

I couldn't possibly comment...
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Re: Musical taste or virtue signalling?

Postby Goat Boy » 04 Nov 2018, 12:49

Virtue signalling is about exhibiting ones own moral values so I’m quite sure that G is doing that by picking a Brazilian song.

He is a pretentious snob of course. Hang him up by his BCB balls I say!
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Re: Musical taste or virtue signalling?

Postby LeBaron » 04 Nov 2018, 13:11

Purgatory Brite wrote:I've been called out by the Modernist to defend my statement in the 70s Cup matches that voting for a track from Brazil feels like virtue signalling. Of course, virtue signalling is a euphemism for hypocrisy.

I always been suspicious of those that laud the music of other cultures over their own, in order I suppose to show their erudition and more refined tastes. To claim that tribal or ethnic music from Africa or South America is somehow superior to or more authentic than western popular music always smacks of cultural appropriation. The most obvious example on BCB is when middle-aged,white men endorse the music for Fela Kuti, an artist whose music had resonance as a form political protest in Nigeria in the 70s. It strikes me that those who now praise him do so out of a need for a reflected sense of righteousness or even political correctness. To draw a parallel do we say that Phil Ochs, a more overtly political artist, is a better singer or songwriter than Bob Dylan?



:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Musical taste or virtue signalling?

Postby Purgatory Brite » 04 Nov 2018, 13:12

yomptepi wrote:Are you calling G a pseud?


To a greater or lesser extent we are all pseuds, particularly those of us that believe that Trout Mask Replica is the musical equivalent of the Sistine Chapel ....

What a liberal statement. I'm disgusted with myself.
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Re: Musical taste or virtue signalling?

Postby Earl E. Eel » 04 Nov 2018, 13:23

'virtue signalling' isn't necessarily hypocritical, although it isn't a term anybody would use when praising someone. It's like standing on a metaphorical mountain shouting about workers' rights or something SO THAT EVERYBODY CAN HEAR YOU

Anyway - people can dig Fela's grooves without giving a flying one about his philosophy, right?

Weird post, really. Almost as half-baked as Googa or Jimbo's efforts.
GoogaMooga wrote:you have to look to the Dutch licensee, Disky

I've got more Disky product

a label like Dutch Disky

One comp to avoid, though, is Disky's "Best of the 70's"

Normally, Disky are clever at repackaging

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Re: Musical taste or virtue signalling?

Postby GoogaMooga » 04 Nov 2018, 13:36

There would be no point in my virtue signaling. First of all I don't need that acceptance or admiration from my peers. Secondly, it wouldn't change things one iota, for people both here and elsewhere think I am an omnivore. I collect world music, but I don't go out of my way to try music from all corners of the Earth. I have a few regions I care about and that's it. When I try to go beyond that to be even more eclectic, I find I am usually disappointed, not all music is for me. For instance, I bought inuit drum and chant music from Thuie, Greenland, but ended up selling it again, got nothing out of it. The sole reason I bought it was to prove to myself what a clever eclectic one I was.
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Re: Musical taste or virtue signalling?

Postby fange » 04 Nov 2018, 13:41

Oh man. Not this crock again.

No, PB. "Suspicious of those that laud the music of other cultures over their own"? Sounds like some kind of McCarthyist scenario, man. Get a grip!

It is definitely possible to enjoy LOTS of different styles of music, and end up liking some of them more than the music you grew up with, without signaling fucking anything apart from the fact that you listen to lots of different music and like some more than others. To say that makes you, by definition, pompous or that you consider your tastes better than others is frankly silly.
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Re: Musical taste or virtue signalling?

Postby Darkness_Fish » 04 Nov 2018, 13:49

I'm more offended at the idea that Phil Ochs could possibly be considered a worse singer than Dylan.
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Re: Musical taste or virtue signalling?

Postby Earl E. Eel » 04 Nov 2018, 13:55

Darkness_Fish wrote:I'm more offended at the idea that Phil Ochs could possibly be considered a worse singer than Dylan.


'get out the car, Ochs'
GoogaMooga wrote:you have to look to the Dutch licensee, Disky

I've got more Disky product

a label like Dutch Disky

One comp to avoid, though, is Disky's "Best of the 70's"

Normally, Disky are clever at repackaging

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Re: Musical taste or virtue signalling?

Postby Charlie O. » 04 Nov 2018, 15:07

RELD-LOMAX inc. wrote:Anyway - people can dig Fela's grooves without giving a flying one about his philosophy, right?

Of course. And there are at least a couple of Brazilian albums that are among my very, very favorites. In truth I know fairly little about the country or its culture. I respond to the music.

RELD-LOMAX inc. wrote:Weird post, really. Almost as half-baked as Googa or Jimbo's efforts.

Of course.
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Re: Musical taste or virtue signalling?

Postby Snarfyguy » 04 Nov 2018, 15:08

It's "woke" one-upmanship and in fact just leveling the accusation amounts to committing the offense.

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Re: Musical taste or virtue signalling?

Postby The Modernist » 04 Nov 2018, 15:11

fange wrote:Oh man. Not this crock again.

No, PB. "Suspicious of those that laud the music of other cultures over their own"? Sounds like some kind of McCarthyist scenario, man. Get a grip!

It is definitely possible to enjoy LOTS of different styles of music, and end up liking some of them more than the music you grew up with, without signaling fucking anything apart from the fact that you listen to lots of different music and like some more than others. To say that makes you, by definition, pompous or that you consider your tastes better than others is frankly silly.


I did write a long reply that got lost, but what Fange said basically. Perhaps the biggest fallacy in the original post is the idea that pop music has genres that have a completely separate history and culture to them, whereas in fact pop music has always been about hybridisation. Just look at rock n' roll, a mix of black and white musical forms, and urban and rural.

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Re: Musical taste or virtue signalling?

Postby LeBaron » 04 Nov 2018, 16:04

I CAN’T BELIEVE that all these people pretend to enjoy the likes of Beethoven, Bach, and Mozart! Austrians and Germans, all of em! And dead for centuries!

You aren’t fooling us!
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take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.

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Re: Musical taste or virtue signalling?

Postby Rayge » 04 Nov 2018, 16:30

Darkness_Fish wrote:I'm more offended at the idea that Phil Ochs could possibly be considered a worse singer than Dylan.

Or indeed a worse songwriter
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Re: Musical taste or virtue signalling?

Postby Earl E. Eel » 04 Nov 2018, 16:40

GoogaMooga wrote:There would be no point in my virtue signaling.


There's no point in ANYONE'S virtue signalling!

Having, or striving for eclectic taste is quite another matter.
GoogaMooga wrote:you have to look to the Dutch licensee, Disky

I've got more Disky product

a label like Dutch Disky

One comp to avoid, though, is Disky's "Best of the 70's"

Normally, Disky are clever at repackaging

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Re: Musical taste or virtue signalling?

Postby GoogaMooga » 04 Nov 2018, 16:46

RELD-LOMAX inc. wrote:
GoogaMooga wrote:There would be no point in my virtue signaling.


There's no point in ANYONE'S virtue signalling!

Having, or striving for eclectic taste is quite another matter.


To satisfy your curiosity, yes, to impress others, no. That was kind of my point.
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Re: Musical taste or virtue signalling?

Postby Earl E. Eel » 04 Nov 2018, 16:50

But 'virtue signalling' is always the latter, never the former
GoogaMooga wrote:you have to look to the Dutch licensee, Disky

I've got more Disky product

a label like Dutch Disky

One comp to avoid, though, is Disky's "Best of the 70's"

Normally, Disky are clever at repackaging

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Re: Musical taste or virtue signalling?

Postby GoogaMooga » 04 Nov 2018, 16:57

RELD-LOMAX inc. wrote:But 'virtue signalling' is always the latter, never the former


Yes, was that not clear in my first post? If you want to discuss whether there is a point in virtue signaling, then one could argue that some people may stand to gain something by impressing others. Then there would be a point, if only to themselves.
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Re: Musical taste or virtue signalling?

Postby Count Machuki » 04 Nov 2018, 17:14

LeBaron wrote:I CAN’T BELIEVE that all these people pretend to enjoy the likes of Beethoven, Bach, and Mozart! Austrians and Germans, all of em! And dead for centuries!

You aren’t fooling us!


Quite. I only listen to middle class white American composers from the South.

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