Pretentious music, musicians and fans

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PENK
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Re: Pretentious music

Postby PENK » 10 Oct 2018, 07:49

Snarfyguy wrote:Did I ever tell about the time I auditioned for the bass slot in Yo La Tengo, back in the late 80s?

What might have been... :D


Was your shirt too well-ironed?
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Minnie Cheddars wrote:Baron got into a fight with some Satan’s Slaves over some culinary issue

Awful thing when that happens. I had a similar experience at a Tom Jones concert.

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Re: Pretentious music

Postby PENK » 10 Oct 2018, 08:07

The Modernist wrote:I actually see a lot of parallels between a strand of alt rock ( exemplified perhaps by Sonic Youth) and prog rock in the 70s. I think both tried to find a creative solution to the problem "where do we go from here, without just repeating what others have done". Prog looked to complexity as the answer and the alt-rockers looked towards abstraction. Both are laudable in many ways, but both can lead to a kind of indulgence where you're no longer looking to connect with your audience in any kind of expressive or emotional way and it becomes a kind of autistic genre.


I know that the indie rock of the '80s and '90s is very much not to your taste, G, but I do think that when looked at with hindsight, what you did have then was a lot of bands who were trying - with very varying levels of success - to do something different or to keep things interesting. Since Britpop and the turn of the century, rock and indie have very much stagnated, coagulated almost.

To answer the point about pretentiousness then it depends what you define as pretentiousness.

I like some Yo La Tengo and find some Yo La Tengo tiresome but I've never really thought of them as pretentious. They clearly love music and love playing music and I think they seem quite modest about what they do.
Sonic Youth, on the other hand, are quite similar in many ways with their interest in noisy wig-outs and experimenting with guitar sounds, but there is much more of an air of artifice, falseness and pose with them which I think really does lend itself to being labelled "pretentious". Banging on about what is and isn't punk, fifteen years after the fact, as if they are suddenly the arbiters, that kind of shit.

The New Yorker wrote:Gordon... agreed to perform with the surviving members of Nirvana... as part of the ceremony for that band’s induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame...
Afterward, Gordon reports with some pride, Michael Stipe told her that her singing was “the most punk-rock thing to ever happen, or that probably ever will happen, at this event.”
GoogaMooga wrote:
Minnie Cheddars wrote:Baron got into a fight with some Satan’s Slaves over some culinary issue

Awful thing when that happens. I had a similar experience at a Tom Jones concert.

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Re: Pretentious music

Postby Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings » 10 Oct 2018, 10:40

WANKA
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Re: Pretentious music

Postby Rayge » 10 Oct 2018, 11:16

Fonz wrote:Calling Rayge...

Nah, Jimbo's entitled to his pretensions, his misuse of words and (lack of) taste.
It's nothing to squabble about.
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Re: Pretentious music

Postby Geezee » 10 Oct 2018, 11:29

I'm unaware of almost any band / artist that ultimately doesn't sound pretentious at any given time, or where it is not possible for someone to think of their approach as pretentious depending on your own personal preferences and outlook. Pop stars who try to build up their music as having deeper meaning, alternative/jazz stars who talk about their art, folk stars who want to make a difference. Even what looks like humbleness can often be seen as pretension or artifice. Are Sonic Youth pretentious but Madonna isn't? Are Yo La Tengo more or less pretentious than the Beatles? Generally, what one finds as pretentious to me tells more about the viewer/listener than the music itself (the New Yorker article about Kim Gordon says more about the writer than Gordon). Not in a bad way necessarily - although when people label artists pretentious sometimes there is an agenda that they want to show themselves as being more in touch with purity and honesty - but either way I don't think it really gets anyone anywhere.
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Re: Pretentious music

Postby Rayge » 10 Oct 2018, 12:25

Geezee wrote:I'm unaware of almost any band / artist that ultimately doesn't sound pretentious at any given time, or where it is not possible for someone to think of their approach as pretentious depending on your own personal preferences and outlook. Pop stars who try to build up their music as having deeper meaning, alternative/jazz stars who talk about their art, folk stars who want to make a difference. Even what looks like humbleness can often be seen as pretension or artifice. Are Sonic Youth pretentious but Madonna isn't? Are Yo La Tengo more or less pretentious than the Beatles? Generally, what one finds as pretentious to me tells more about the viewer/listener than the music itself (the New Yorker article about Kim Gordon says more about the writer than Gordon). Not in a bad way necessarily - although when people label artists pretentious sometimes there is an agenda that they want to show themselves as being more in touch with purity and honesty - but either way I don't think it really gets anyone anywhere.

Precisely.
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Re: Pretentious music

Postby Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings » 10 Oct 2018, 12:39

So, you two - define what 'pretentious' means for you
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Re: Pretentious music

Postby injuredbird! » 10 Oct 2018, 12:59

jimbo
its impossible for true music lovers to pretend to like certain music
it too much apart of their psyche-they cant pretend
not even to get off with a girl
theyll tell you if they dont like something
i am not an alias:i am a free man

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Re: Pretentious music

Postby Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings » 10 Oct 2018, 13:01

injuredbird! wrote:it too much apart of their psyche-they cant pretend
not even to get off with a girl


:lol:
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Re: Pretentious music

Postby Rayge » 10 Oct 2018, 13:13

HEN wrote:So, you two - define what 'pretentious' means for you

claiming to possess qualities you don't in fact have in order to impress people: at the heart of it is pretence. It doesn't mean 'not to my simple but correct tastes, and therefore steeped in falseness or trickery'.
I don't think YLT have ever claimed to be the future of anything other than what they are, a group of musicians and music fans who like to make the music they like – and a very wide variety of it over the years.
Last edited by Rayge on 10 Oct 2018, 13:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pretentious music

Postby Geezee » 10 Oct 2018, 13:14

HEN wrote:So, you two - define what 'pretentious' means for you


https://www.dictionary.com/

pretentious
prɪˈtɛnʃəs/
adjective
attempting to impress by affecting greater importance or merit than is actually possessed.
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Re: Pretentious music

Postby Jimbo » 10 Oct 2018, 13:37

If a song can't be somehow placed within a "hit" playlist then it ain't worthy IMO. In other words if it don't rock nor roll it's probably pretentious twaddle.
“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” Mark Twain

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Re: Pretentious music

Postby Geezee » 10 Oct 2018, 13:41

Exactly. Because rock is famously not pretentious at all.
And any song above 3 minutes and has more than 3 instruments is obviously pretentious.
And the fans can only be salt of the earth working class.
And anyone who doesn't have their own face on the album cover - I mean what the fCK is that about?
And any song that doesn't have "blues" in the title - what are they trying to tell us? that they are better than us?
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Re: Pretentious music

Postby Rayge » 10 Oct 2018, 13:43

Rayge wrote: Jimbo's entitled to...his misuse of words.


Rayge wrote:claiming to possess qualities you don't in fact have in order to impress people: at the heart of it is pretence. It doesn't mean 'not to my simple but correct tastes, and therefore steeped in falseness or trickery'.


Jimbo wrote:If it don't rock nor roll it's probably pretentious twaddle.


Quod Erat Demonstrandum
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Re: Pretentious music

Postby Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings » 10 Oct 2018, 14:05

Shit answers, lads, sorry.
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Re: Pretentious music

Postby Stille Baron » 10 Oct 2018, 14:08

HEN wrote:Shit answers, lads, sorry.


Ok. Pretentious means: “whatever John Coan doesn’t like or understand.”
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take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.

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Re: Pretentious music

Postby Jimbo » 10 Oct 2018, 14:09

According to my thesaurus a synonym for pretentious is "hoity-toity" and if your rock and roll is too dense, too deep, too weird, too eclectic for my taste then you smarmy twats can keep it, force it into your heads and feel the enlightenment of "getting it," or pretending to do so. "Hmm, this shit is so weird I must delve into the musician's motive for it can't really be just made up crap, right?"
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Re: Pretentious music

Postby GoogaMooga » 10 Oct 2018, 14:10

Good Vibrations could be called pretentious, then, but it went and sold a million. You can scale lofty heights, as long as you are honest with yourself and your audience. It's when you put on airs and affect some kind of loftiness that you can't really get behind, that's when people will call you out. Jim Morrison springs to mind.
1966 and all that

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Re: Pretentious music

Postby Dor-Relip Hotels and Bathings » 10 Oct 2018, 14:14

LeBaron wrote:
HEN wrote:Shit answers, lads, sorry.


Ok. Pretentious means: “whatever John Coan doesn’t like or understand.”


I'm asking YOU what kind of music would make YOU say 'that's pretentious'. We all do it.

Don't try to be a smart-arse - it doesn't suit you.
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Re: Pretentious music

Postby Stille Baron » 10 Oct 2018, 14:16

HEN wrote:Don't try to be a smart-arse - it doesn't suit you.


Thanks for the advice. Much obliged.
Quaco wrote:Are you fucking high?

take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.