Pretentious music, musicians and fans

[naughty boy]

Time, he's waiting in the wings
He speaks of senseless things
His script is you and me, boys
Time, he flexes like a whore
Falls wanking to the floor
His trick is you and me, boy
Time, in quaaludes and red wine
Demanding Billy Dolls
And other friends of mine
Take your time
The sniper in the brain, regurgitating drain
Incestuous and vain
And many other last names
Oh, well, I look at my watch, it say nine twenty-five
And I think "oh God, I'm still alive"

[bobzilla77]

I like the idea floated by Throbbing Gristle that anything that makes sound is an instrument and anyone who can make it make a sound is a musician. Then it's just a matter of, is the sound appealing?

Is that a pretentious or unpretentious approach to making music? Never mind whether you like them specifically.

[naughty boy]

Maybe it depends on how worthy you think the efforts are.

Eno had similar ideas but was never lofty about it.

[The Modernist]

Time, he's waiting in the wings
He speaks of senseless things
His script is you and me, boys
Time, he flexes like a whore
Falls wanking to the floor
His trick is you and me, boy
Time, in quaaludes and red wine
Demanding Billy Dolls
And other friends of mine
Take your time
The sniper in the brain, regurgitating drain
Incestuous and vain
And many other last names
Oh, well, I look at my watch, it say nine twenty-five
And I think "oh God, I'm still alive"

Often the pretentiousness of Bowie is part of the appeal for me, that's where it becomes quite a complex matter as pretension is not always pejorative.

[naughty boy]

Yes (I did mention this earlier - although that's not true for me in this specific instance)

[never/ever]

Maybe it depends on how worthy you think the efforts are.

Eno had similar ideas but was never lofty about it.

Eno always seems to be the figurehead in this type of discussion. He saw his music as the result of him being fascinated with experimentation and the fact that he he was able to be specific and philosophical about his work made people think he was pretentious.
Perhaps that is why he was also known for being an avid pornography collector.

[The Modernist]

[

It's funny to me how you all know so much about music and obscure bands but have this narrow view of so much other music.

I think there's relatively few on here whose tastes are truly narrow. I think we're opinionated for sure and some people have all sorts of filters they project upon the music, which might not always be fair, but music is a very personal thing isn't it?

[naughty boy]

Is this pretentious?

[never/ever]

Is this pretentious?

I don't think so.
Like many German bands, they were part of an incredible busy scene where this kind of experimentation was very popular and commonplace in musical culture there.
It was singularly different and some folks may say it is pretentious if they weren't too known with this scene but for a lot of bands it was load up, plug in and play loud. Worked for Tangerine Dream, Ash Ra Tempel and other contemporaries.

[The Modernist]

I wouldn't term it pretentious. I did find it a bit boring and monotonous though. Minimalism and repetition in music can be a very difficult one to pull off because you're really testing the audience's patience. For me that track didn't do enough to engage me, though I appreciate others may feel differently.
Thinking about it, it's quite rare for me to find instrumental music pretentious. I think I'm more likely to apply to something where the vocalist is very affected in some way. There was a track Darkness Fish picked in the 90s cup that I found pretentious, I'll see if I can find it..

[The Modernist]

There was a track Darkness Fish picked in the 90s cup that I found pretentious, I'll see if I can find it..

It was this. This is pretentious in all the worst ways possible for me..

[Hightea]

Is this pretentious?

No
better question is this prog? To me it is and yet I'm sure others it is not. One thing is for sure its not blues based rock.

[Hightea]

[

It's funny to me how you all know so much about music and obscure bands but have this narrow view of so much other music.

I think there's relatively few on here whose tastes are truly narrow. I think we're opinionated for sure and some people have all sorts of filters they project upon the music, which might not always be fair, but music is a very personal thing isn't it?

sorry not what I meant fully aware BCB are very open and listen to lots of music - its why I'm here.

By the way we should note the other reason I'm here is to take my frustration with life and/or work by talking music and complaining about it too.
Don't think there is anyone on here I actually dislike its just music talk!

[Goat Boy]

There was a track Darkness Fish picked in the 90s cup that I found pretentious, I'll see if I can find it..

It was this. This is pretentious in all the worst ways possible for me..

Just...why?

[The Modernist]

It's one of the worst things ever isn't it?
Most of the stuff in the "What's Up" thread is pretty good in comparison.

[Goat Boy]

I think I need to listen to Parklife for a whole week just to recover

[sloopjohnc]

It's one of the worst things ever isn't it?

Someone's read way too much Bukowski.

[Ghost of Harry Smith]

Enjoyable thread thanks all, this soupy mix of erudition and numptiness is what brings me back to BCB.

Coan was right to ask everyone to define their terms because you're moving across different things here, like:
- Artistic over-reaching: a perceived failure to achieve lofty intentions, see also
- Artistic self-indulgence: a rejection of the artist's chosen lofty intentions, or
- Simplicity VS complexity: rejection of the need for lofty intentions in the first place.
- Authenticity VS Inauthenticity: a perception that the artist isn't real about what they do, that it's a put-on, a mask.

The subjectivity of all of these points is obvious, so I rarely use the word pretentious to describe artistic output because maybe I've just missed some vital bits of context. Or maybe I just haven't had my expectations fulfilled. But I guess I do use the word when all those points above are combined into one big shitshow.

Like, for instance, I found it extremely pretentious when at the very first concert ever in Australia by The Waterboys a couple of years ago, Mike Scott chose to perform his plodding, ooh-look-aren't-I-poetic tribute to William Butler Yeats in its entirety rather than play the songs of his that his audience actually knew and liked (we got 'Whole of the Moon' as an encore). I mean, fine to do that if he was a regular visitor to the country but at the very first show here ever? And when he hadn't made it known to ticket-buyers beforehand that that was what he intended to perform, so buyer beware etc? Fuck him, THAT'S pretentious, even if in Scott's own mind he was being true to his muse or whatever.

[Hightea]

Well The last three nights I’ve seen
A band with choir and mini orch
A 10 piece pop band with a harp player
4 piece band playing their asses off and having a blast smiling.
I forget which one is the pretentious prog band.

[Ghost of Harry Smith]

I don't think it's at all pretentious that Yo La Tengo make a droney bit of noise in concert for 10 minutes, that's totally consistent with who they are and what they like and do. I love some of their ouput but I've been bored by them in concert before when the noise starts to noodle on a bit. So I'll dismiss them on those grounds, not pretension.

Springsteen's bigger than Yo La Tengo. If you find him pretentious, is that a blanket dismissal? Do you distinguish between Born-in-the-USA-working-class-hero Bruce and Nebraska-Bruce? When he seems to be openly subverting mythic aspects of America and his own persona with lyrics saying working class life is neither fair, fun nor noble? See that's what makes me like the guy. Or do you find that even more pretentious still?