Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

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Bent Fabric
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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Bent Fabric » 24 Aug 2018, 19:48

The Modernist wrote:He lost his way badly in the 70s.


Certainly my belief. There are scattered highlights throughout his post-Imagine work (and Imagine itself is less focused and consistent than POB), and a lot of questionable choices, but he generally SOUNDS disengaged. One of the many tragedies of his early demise is that he very much appeared to be genuinely re-engaging with his creative side at the very end.

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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Quaco » 24 Aug 2018, 19:50

Bent Fabric wrote:
The Modernist wrote:He lost his way badly in the 70s.


Certainly my belief. There are scattered highlights throughout his post-Imagine work (and Imagine itself is less focused and consistent than POB), and a lot of questionable choices, but he generally SOUNDS disengaged. One of the many tragedies of his early demise is that he very much appeared to be genuinely re-engaging with his creative side at the very end.

I don't agree with this premise, but maybe I'm not being objective enough.
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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Bent Fabric » 24 Aug 2018, 19:52

Quaco wrote:I don't agree with this premise, but maybe I'm not being objective enough.


I can't imagine you'd gain much by liking any of those records less.

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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Diamond Dog » 24 Aug 2018, 20:00

For me, Lennon fell off the cliff after the best parts of Imagine. The only thing I really like after that album is the intro to "#9 Dream" !
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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Matt Wilson » 24 Aug 2018, 20:00

I don't think he was any more commited for the Double Fantasy/Milk and Honey stuff than he was for the Mind Games and Wall & Bridges LPs.

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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Diamond Dog » 24 Aug 2018, 20:07

Matt Wilson wrote:I don't think he was any more commited for the Double Fantasy/Milk and Honey stuff than he was for the Mind Games and Wall & Bridges LPs.


I don't like any of them all, So I probably agree.
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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Matt Wilson » 24 Aug 2018, 20:10

Diamond Dog wrote:
Matt Wilson wrote:I don't think he was any more commited for the Double Fantasy/Milk and Honey stuff than he was for the Mind Games and Wall & Bridges LPs.

So I probably agree.


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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Quaco » 24 Aug 2018, 20:11

Bent Fabric wrote:
Quaco wrote:I don't agree with this premise, but maybe I'm not being objective enough.


I can't imagine you'd gain much by liking any of those records less.

Yeah, I may as well stay in my dream land. Digging "Aisumasen", "Nobody Loves You", "I Know", "What You Got" etc. The way I look at it, JL/POB was so excellent that an album with a couple duff tracks like Mind Games seems worse than it is. Only STINYC is "not good" and that's largely because Yoko's voice is not suited to rock music, being far better utilized on her solo albums (esp. YO/POB and Fly). A STINYC EP would be fantastic!! :)
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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby The Modernist » 24 Aug 2018, 20:29

There's a kind of archetypal Lennon song you get in the 70s; a sort of slow to mid tempo slog that's piano dominated (and usually has some kind of self-pitying lyric) and given some syrupy production ( and he made poor producer choices too). There are just so many like that. It's like he got into some creative rut. When he does escape from that musical straitjacket, he sounds all the better for it.

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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Sneelock » 24 Aug 2018, 20:30

I think YO/POB is one hell of a rock album.
I like more songs on Mind Games than W&B but I think W&B is a better album.

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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Diamond Dog » 24 Aug 2018, 20:36

The Modernist wrote:There's a kind of archetypal Lennon song you get in the 70s; a sort of slow to mid tempo slog that's piano dominated (and usually has some kind of self-pitying lyric) and given some syrupy production ( and he made poor producer choices too). There are just so many like that. It's like he got into some creative rut. When he does escape from that musical straitjacket, he sounds all the better for it.


I really dislike the 'anthemic' stuff like "Power To The People" "Woman Is The Nigger ..." etc etc... that horrible fucking sax, gloopy Spector-like production.... and lazy lyrics that were just sloganeering garbage.
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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Quaco » 24 Aug 2018, 20:38

The Modernist wrote:There's a kind of archetypal Lennon song you get in the 70s; a sort of slow to mid tempo slog that's piano dominated (and usually has some kind of self-pitying lyric) and given some syrupy production ( and he made poor producer choices too). There are just so many like that. It's like he got into some creative rut. When he does escapes from that musical straitjacket, he sounds all the better for it.

Which ones are you thinking of? There's "How" and "Old Dirt Road" and neither of those is well-known or archetypal. "Imagine" I guess though that's so minimalistic it seems kind of unique to me. I know what you're saying, but I think it's mostly Lennon imitators like World Party and The Rutles who have created this image.
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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Quaco » 24 Aug 2018, 20:41

Diamond Dog wrote:
The Modernist wrote:There's a kind of archetypal Lennon song you get in the 70s; a sort of slow to mid tempo slog that's piano dominated (and usually has some kind of self-pitying lyric) and given some syrupy production ( and he made poor producer choices too). There are just so many like that. It's like he got into some creative rut. When he does escape from that musical straitjacket, he sounds all the better for it.


I really dislike the 'anthemic' stuff like "Power To The People" "Woman Is The Nigger ..." etc etc... that horrible fucking sax, gloopy Spector-like production.... and lazy lyrics that were just sloganeering garbage.

Someday you will take "Woman Is the Nigger..." off that list. It's anything but lazy, if you really listen to it fresh. I'll give you "Power to the People" and "Attica State" and some of the others.
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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Bent Fabric » 24 Aug 2018, 21:00

Quaco wrote: "Nobody Loves You", "I Know", "What You Got


I do like these three quite a bit, I have to say. Similarly, several of the singles..."Power.." I've really come around to after decades of antipathy, the hazy narcotic AOR psych of "Mind Games" and "#9 Dream" always sounds pretty bitchin' on the radio... And, yes- there's a couple of others from this period where you can hear a decent melodic idea almost straining to break free and turn into a genuine musical event, until someone (Gordon Edwards?) comes along and plays a really naff sounding high note on the bass that may as well serve as a HAZMAT sign.

I notice we're all being generous enough not to mention Rock And Roll. Clearly, we love the guy.

But, yeah, a period of any hero's work where I can genuinely enjoy something like - at best - 1 out of every 3 or 4 songs is...well, I wouldn't even know what to say about that.

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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Quaco » 24 Aug 2018, 21:02

We haven't mentioned Rock and Roll because it's so obviously cool!
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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby The Modernist » 24 Aug 2018, 21:09

Quaco wrote:
The Modernist wrote:There's a kind of archetypal Lennon song you get in the 70s; a sort of slow to mid tempo slog that's piano dominated (and usually has some kind of self-pitying lyric) and given some syrupy production ( and he made poor producer choices too). There are just so many like that. It's like he got into some creative rut. When he does escapes from that musical straitjacket, he sounds all the better for it.

Which ones are you thinking of? There's "How" and "Old Dirt Road" and neither of those is well-known or archetypal. "Imagine" I guess though that's so minimalistic it seems kind of unique to me. I know what you're saying, but I think it's mostly Lennon imitators like World Party and The Rutles who have created this image.


It's this kind of song I mean





I'm struggling to find videos that aren't blocked though ( excuses...excuses 8-) ), but he seemed to write this kind of song a lot. It's this ponderous kind of 'statement' song.

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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Quaco » 24 Aug 2018, 21:18

Man, I love "Nobody Loves You (When You're Down and Out)".
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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby DRUGS SNAKE » 24 Aug 2018, 21:19

Matt Wilson wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:
Matt Wilson wrote:I don't think he was any more commited for the Double Fantasy/Milk and Honey stuff than he was for the Mind Games and Wall & Bridges LPs.

So I probably agree.


I'm marking this down on my calendar.

Don't say anything to ruin the moment.

wipes away a tear


:lol:

Matt made me laugh!
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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby DRUGS SNAKE » 24 Aug 2018, 21:21

The Modernist wrote:
Quaco wrote:
The Modernist wrote:There's a kind of archetypal Lennon song you get in the 70s; a sort of slow to mid tempo slog that's piano dominated (and usually has some kind of self-pitying lyric) and given some syrupy production ( and he made poor producer choices too). There are just so many like that. It's like he got into some creative rut. When he does escapes from that musical straitjacket, he sounds all the better for it.

Which ones are you thinking of? There's "How" and "Old Dirt Road" and neither of those is well-known or archetypal. "Imagine" I guess though that's so minimalistic it seems kind of unique to me. I know what you're saying, but I think it's mostly Lennon imitators like World Party and The Rutles who have created this image.


It's this kind of song I mean





I'm struggling to find videos that aren't blocked though ( excuses...excuses 8-) ), but he seemed to write this kind of song a lot. It's this ponderous kind of 'statement' song.


Most of what I've heard from Double Fantasy is like that. But those songs have quite an emotional clout nonetheless (I remember bawling at 'Woman' as a kid - of course this was partly because it came out in the aftermath of his assassination)
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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Matt Wilson » 24 Aug 2018, 21:30

Quaco wrote: Yoko's voice is not suited to rock music, being far better utilized on her solo albums (esp. YO/POB and Fly). A STINYC EP would be fantastic!! :)



Damn. I couldn't let this pass.

You've actually listened to and scrutinized her solo stuff.



:shock:


You truly are a Lennon fan, Jim.