Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

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Snarfyguy
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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Snarfyguy » 23 Aug 2018, 22:50

Matt Wilson wrote: The stripped down approach he and Spector used on Plastic Ono Band certainly sets that album apart, but the sweetening of the production on Imagine is what made that LP sell more copies, not that the songs are necessarily better or anything.

They're not - they're worse (or significantly less good, to be not so inflammatory).

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The band needs to take some of the blame. I think of Elephant's Memory as a kind of East Coast Big Brother and the Holding Co., just serviceable blues rock. He should have got the New York Dolls!
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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Quaco » 23 Aug 2018, 22:54

Matt Wilson wrote:
Quaco wrote: I like the screechy stuff ("Aü")


Of course you do.

:D

Took a while, I have to admit!
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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Six String » 24 Aug 2018, 00:46

I never understood Lennon's choice of Elephant's Memory for his band. He could have had his choice of musicians and he chose those grease balls? I'ved only owned POB and Imagine up until Double Fantasy and I still prefer POB over the others. I've owned it since Christmas the year it was released and bought Imagine when it was released. Two different production styles with different outcomes. I like all of Imagine though a few songs I could live without. Not so with POB. Every track is essential. They are so burned into my brain they can never be removed.

Would I like to hear this box? Sure. Will I buy it? Erm, no. I have no need for these kinds of things any more. It's cool they are releasing it though.

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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Bent Fabric » 24 Aug 2018, 00:52

Six String wrote:I never understood Lennon's choice of Elephant's Memory for his band. He could have had his choice of musicians and he chose those grease balls?


I've often wondered. And then at some point realized...if you've only ever been in the Beatles, there's probably a lot of things you just don't get or understand about inorganic musical situations. "I play with people, great things happen. Easy peasy."

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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Quaco » 24 Aug 2018, 01:09

Bent Fabric wrote:
Six String wrote:I never understood Lennon's choice of Elephant's Memory for his band. He could have had his choice of musicians and he chose those grease balls?

I've often wondered. And then at some point realized...if you've only ever been in the Beatles, there's probably a lot of things you just don't get or understand about inorganic musical situations. "I play with people, great things happen. Easy peasy."

I think it's a different sort of naivete. Not so much that JL was used to things just going well because he's always been in the greatest band of all time, but JL had only ever played with three people, all from his hometown, so he was easily impressed by outside things. Whether it's Eric Clapton, Yoko Ono, Willie Weeks, Tom Scott, or Elephant's Memory, ex-Beatles were often a bit too impressed by outside people that were different from them. But I like Elephant's Memory -- they were rough and ready and had a raunchy New York sound, and they fit JL's image of a revolutionary rock band, which is what he was into at the time. And who would be better for him to play with? I can't think of who. Clapton, Baker, Page ... "choice of musicians" at that time usually meant supergroups. JL wanted to shed that rock royalty/supergroup thing. Maybe he could have auditioned and rehearsed a select group of less-known players who wanted to throw in their lot with him, but that's a lot of work. McCartney tried that and half-assed the whole thing.
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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby toomanyhatz » 24 Aug 2018, 01:11

They were a "street band." He wanted "street cred." Musicality was, at that time, not as important to him.

Plus, maybe on some level he felt he could relate to them more as people. I could see him - flighty as he was, particularly then - refusing to play with musicians who weren't also revolutionaries, or some such.
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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Bent Fabric » 24 Aug 2018, 01:18

Well, yeah - you wouldn't necessarily be looking for what you already have. Dare I say it, that type of chemistry (Beatles) is the sort of thing you could take for granted/undervalue, and even associate with a shitty personal situation. I'm sure both George and John thought they were getting someone else's chemistry (be it a pre-existing band, or some slick subset of the avocado mafia).

Mind you, for as much difficulty as he had keeping a lineup together (or consistently playing to strengths), there are a few versions of Wings that I really dig.

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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Quaco » 24 Aug 2018, 01:20

toomanyhatz wrote:They were a "street band." He wanted "street cred." Musicality was, at that time, not as important to him.

Plus, maybe on some level he felt he could relate to them more as people. I could see him - flighty as he was, particularly then - refusing to play with musicians who weren't also revolutionaries, or some such.

Who wouldn't want to play with these guys?! Pretty great wild stuff!



Elephant's Memory weren't bad players at all, and maybe he had had enough of London, precious Beatles people, and white mansions. I can sympathize.
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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Bent Fabric » 24 Aug 2018, 01:26

The early, rather ethereal version of Elephant's Memory (Carly Simon, the Midnight Cowboy soundtrack) is, of course, quite special in a very different way.

He probably wasn't looking for that.

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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Quaco » 24 Aug 2018, 01:26

Bent Fabric wrote:Well, yeah - you wouldn't necessarily be looking for what you already have. Dare I say it, that type of chemistry (Beatles) is the sort of thing you could take for granted/undervalue, and even associate with a shitty personal situation. I'm sure both George and John thought they were getting someone else's chemistry (be it a pre-existing band, or some slick subset of the avocado mafia).

Mind you, for as much difficulty as he had keeping a lineup together (or consistently playing to strengths), there are a few versions of Wings that I really dig.

Definitely, and even Wild Life sounds good. It's really the songwriting and singing that lets these projects down, I think Some Time in NYC included. "Bip Bop" would be fine if it weren't for the inane lyrics ... "Angela" is a great backing track with bad singing ...
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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Quaco » 24 Aug 2018, 01:27

Bent Fabric wrote:The early, rather ethereal version of Elephant's Memory (Carly Simon, the Midnight Cowboy soundtrack) is, of course, quite special in a very different way.

Didn't know that!
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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Bent Fabric » 24 Aug 2018, 01:27

Quaco wrote:...maybe he had had enough of London, precious Beatles people, and white mansions. I can sympathize.


You're all done with the Silverlake Mafia, aren't you?

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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Quaco » 24 Aug 2018, 01:34

Bent Fabric wrote:
Quaco wrote:...maybe he had had enough of London, precious Beatles people, and white mansions. I can sympathize.


You're all done with the Silverlake Mafia, aren't you?

:D Yeah man. I just don't want to keep playing with the guys from Possum Dixon. That's not my bag, I'm into a new thing.
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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Earl E. Eel » 24 Aug 2018, 02:14

Quaco wrote:
Bent Fabric wrote:The early, rather ethereal version of Elephant's Memory (Carly Simon, the Midnight Cowboy soundtrack) is, of course, quite special in a very different way.

Didn't know that!


The Midnight Cowboy stuff is heavenly. Very similar to what Broadcast would do 30 years later.
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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Six String » 24 Aug 2018, 17:07

Quaco wrote:
Bent Fabric wrote:
Six String wrote:I never understood Lennon's choice of Elephant's Memory for his band. He could have had his choice of musicians and he chose those grease balls?

I've often wondered. And then at some point realized...if you've only ever been in the Beatles, there's probably a lot of things you just don't get or understand about inorganic musical situations. "I play with people, great things happen. Easy peasy."

I think it's a different sort of naivete. Not so much that JL was used to things just going well because he's always been in the greatest band of all time, but JL had only ever played with three people, all from his hometown, so he was easily impressed by outside things. Whether it's Eric Clapton, Yoko Ono, Willie Weeks, Tom Scott, or Elephant's Memory, ex-Beatles were often a bit too impressed by outside people that were different from them. But I like Elephant's Memory -- they were rough and ready and had a raunchy New York sound, and they fit JL's image of a revolutionary rock band, which is what he was into at the time. And who would be better for him to play with? I can't think of who. Clapton, Baker, Page ... "choice of musicians" at that time usually meant supergroups. JL wanted to shed that rock royalty/supergroup thing. Maybe he could have auditioned and rehearsed a select group of less-known players who wanted to throw in their lot with him, but that's a lot of work. McCartney tried that and half-assed the whole thing.


While I can't disagree with your assessment, I wasn't thinking of a super group to play with Lennon. My point was truly literal that he could have had a huge list to choose from. Imho he could have stuck with the POB and done well though not sure how possible it could have been.

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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Quaco » 24 Aug 2018, 17:12

Six String wrote:While I can't disagree with your assessment, I wasn't thinking of a super group to play with Lennon. My point was truly literal that he could have had a huge list to choose from. Imho he could have stuck with the POB and done well though not sure how possible it could have been.

I agree that that would have been great. I don't know how the biggest star in music would go about getting a group together at that point. It's really hard to imagine how that could happen. One of the reasons stars hang around with other stars is that they're the only ones who can handle it. Doing auditions for a Lennon solo group in 1972, so soon after The Beatles, would be difficult. Someone like him would almost have to go with superstar friends. Or some people in between, experienced studio players, but who?
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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Matt Wilson » 24 Aug 2018, 17:15

That's not what Paul did though.
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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby The Modernist » 24 Aug 2018, 19:35

Matt Wilson wrote:I've been listening to the CD Lennon box of his albums with their original mixes for the last week. One a day. It's easy to categorize John's solo stuff for me:

Excellent
Plastic Ono Band
Imagine


Average/weak
Sometime in New York City

Good
Mind Games
Walls & Bridges
Double Fantasy
Live Peace in Toronto


Pretty good
Milk & Honey


That's pretty charitable I'd say.
You can make a good 20 song comp out of his solo career, but there's certainly more bad than good overall. He lost his way badly in the 70s.

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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby Matt Wilson » 24 Aug 2018, 19:37

Yeah, it's too bad he didn't record any Northern Soul songs.

:)
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Re: Lennon's "Imagine" album + outtakes...6 CD boxset.

Postby The Modernist » 24 Aug 2018, 19:38

He could have done worse.