Phil Collins plays well with others

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Re: Phil Collins plays well with others

Postby Darkness_Fish » 06 Aug 2018, 11:09

pcqgod wrote:His drumming on that Frida single is godlike.


Diamond Dog wrote:I can only suggest you play "The Carpet Crawlers" or the whole of "The Lamb Lies Down...." He may be a loathsome twat but, as a drummer, he is a Titan.

Seriously though, I'm not being antagonistic or awkward, I genuinely want to hear something special from Phil, but that Frida track seems like fairly bog-standard drumming to me. "The Carpet Crawlers" is better, but it still wouldn't exactly knock me sideways. I'm looking for jaw-dropping greatness here, and I'm not encountering the spectacular. Compared to, say, "Lullabye Letter" for which for a similar time/genre, it's not in the same league, imo.
Like fast-moving clouds casting shadows against a hillside, the melody-loop shuddered with a sense of the sublime, the awful unknowable majesty of the world.

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Re: Phil Collins plays well with others

Postby Diamond Dog » 06 Aug 2018, 11:17

Well I'm not a drummer. I do however have a very good friend - John Reynolds, played and produced loads of stuff over the years and was married to Sinead O'Connor (that's the name dropping out of the way) - and he insists that Collins is very much what would be described as 'a drummer's drummer'. I have no reason to doubt that.
I also think his whole work throughout "The Lamb..." is pretty fucking robust - it makes me shake me head a bit. And I was like that even when I actively didn't like the album! :)
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Re: Phil Collins plays well with others

Postby Diamond Dog » 06 Aug 2018, 11:21

Darkness_Fish wrote:
pcqgod wrote:His drumming on that Frida single is godlike.


Diamond Dog wrote:I can only suggest you play "The Carpet Crawlers" or the whole of "The Lamb Lies Down...." He may be a loathsome twat but, as a drummer, he is a Titan.

Seriously though, I'm not being antagonistic or awkward, I genuinely want to hear something special from Phil, but that Frida track seems like fairly bog-standard drumming to me. "The Carpet Crawlers" is better, but it still wouldn't exactly knock me sideways. I'm looking for jaw-dropping greatness here, and I'm not encountering the spectacular. Compared to, say, "Lullabye Letter" for which for a similar time/genre, it's not in the same league, imo.


And I've just realised... I didn;t mean "The Carpet Crawlers"!!! :) I meant "Supper's Ready"!! lol.

Quite a difference, I think you'll agree! :)
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Re: Phil Collins plays well with others

Postby trans-chigley express » 06 Aug 2018, 11:29

Diamond Dog wrote:
And I've just realised... I didn;t mean "The Carpet Crawlers"!!! :) I meant "Supper's Ready"!! lol.

Quite a difference, I think you'll agree! :)

Making him listen 25 minutes of Genesis is cruel :lol: The last 10 mins has the best drumming

The PG track I posted has some great drumming

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Re: Phil Collins plays well with others

Postby Diamond Dog » 06 Aug 2018, 11:41

Just playing it now and "Apocalypse in 9/8".... ffs!

This has timestamps of the individual sections for ease of use :



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Re: Phil Collins plays well with others

Postby Darkness_Fish » 06 Aug 2018, 11:47

Yeah, the drumming's definitely an improvement there, such a shame the actual song is pretty much unlistenable. Why have the best example of his drumming behind someone twatting about on a VL-Tone? The Peter Gabriel track is much more listenable.

Thanks anyway.
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Re: Phil Collins plays well with others

Postby Diamond Dog » 06 Aug 2018, 11:52

:)
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Re: Phil Collins plays well with others

Postby The Slider » 06 Aug 2018, 12:40

Diamond Dog wrote:
The Slider wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote: because of their social care policies.


are you sure about that?
I'd love the see the quote again... it was 29 years ago, that record came out so it has been lost in the mists of time.
If he did indeed take issue with Labour's social care policies, and allowed himself to be quoted on the subject, then he is an idiot.
You couldn't buy that sort of bad publicity


Admittedly from wiki but...

However, Collins has since stated that although he did once claim many years earlier that he might leave Britain if most of his income was taken in tax, which was Labour Party policy at that time for top earners, he has never been a Conservative Party supporter and he left Britain for Switzerland in 1994 purely because he started a relationship with a woman who lived there. He said of Gallagher: "I don't care if he likes my music or not. I do care if he starts telling people I'm a wanker because of my politics. It's an opinion based on an old, misunderstood quote."[272]

Despite his statement that he did not leave Britain for tax purposes, Collins was one of several wealthy figures living in tax havens who were singled out for criticism in a 2008 report by the charity Christian Aid.[273] The Independent included Collins as one of their "ten celebrity tax exiles", erroneously repeating that he had left the country when Labour won the 1997 general election and that he threatened to return if the Conservatives won in 2005.[274] Referring to the 1997 general election in his article "Famous men and their misunderstood politics" for MSN, Hugh Wilson stated: "Labour won it in a landslide, which just goes to show the influence pop stars really wield". He also wrote that Collins's reported comments and subsequent move to Switzerland led to "accusations of hypocrisy" since he had "bemoaned the plight of the homeless in the song 'Another Day in Paradise'", making him "an easy target when future elections came round".[1


So nothing whatsoever about social care policies and a bit of anecdotal - Wiki source for good measure - on his attitudes to paying more tax.

I'll stick with 'slightly annoying nerk' if you don't mind.
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Re: Phil Collins plays well with others

Postby Diamond Dog » 06 Aug 2018, 12:43

He was being interviewed by Piers Morgan for The Sun.

I'll stick with Loathsome Twat....
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Re: Phil Collins plays well with others

Postby The Slider » 06 Aug 2018, 12:54

So it must be true then

I've done a little googling and the actual article is nowhere to be found.
Funny that.
Anyway, the long and short of it is that he - like hundreds of others in his (and similar) line of business - may have left the country because he didn't want to pay more tax.
I am still seeing absolutely nothing about his alleged criticism of Labour's social policy - and I suspect you just made that up to add credence to your dislike of him :lol:
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Re: Phil Collins plays well with others

Postby Diamond Dog » 06 Aug 2018, 13:04

lol...
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Re: Phil Collins plays well with others

Postby The Slider » 06 Aug 2018, 13:13

http://expatandoffshore.com/blog/top-ten-tax-exiles

Does Bowie qualify as a loathesome twat too?
I'll give you Philip Green though
And the jury is out on Mick Jagger

God bless these lot though:

Comedian Ricky Gervais described tax exiles as "unsavoury", presenter Graham Norton, who has said "I should pay my tax because I can afford it," and author JK Rowling, who said it would have been "contemptible" for her to leave the country for lower tax rates after finding success.
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Re: Phil Collins plays well with others

Postby Diamond Dog » 06 Aug 2018, 13:21

The Slider wrote:http://expatandoffshore.com/blog/top-ten-tax-exiles

Does Bowie qualify as a loathesome twat too?
I'll give you Philip Green though
And the jury is out on Mick Jagger


I'm fairly certain Bowie didn't write a tune about the homeless and then threaten to become a tax exile... (I can't find the interview, but it's out there. Collins himself accepts the majority of it in the piece I posted earlier).

But if Bowie was a loathsome twat, I'll forgive him anyway, because he made much greater music than Collins.
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Re: Phil Collins plays well with others

Postby The Slider » 06 Aug 2018, 13:27

"Haven't you got a home to go to?"
"No, we are gnome-ads"

Fucking hypocrite, he was.
Loathsome twat.
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Re: Phil Collins plays well with others

Postby Diamond Dog » 06 Aug 2018, 13:35

Yes. That's irrefutable. :)
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Re: Phil Collins plays well with others

Postby zoomboogity » 06 Aug 2018, 19:01

Darkness_Fish wrote:Seriously though, I'm not being antagonistic or awkward, I genuinely want to hear something special from Phil, but that Frida track seems like fairly bog-standard drumming to me. "The Carpet Crawlers" is better, but it still wouldn't exactly knock me sideways. I'm looking for jaw-dropping greatness here, and I'm not encountering the spectacular. Compared to, say, "Lullabye Letter" for which for a similar time/genre, it's not in the same league, imo.


I notice they included North Star from Fripp's Exposure. I like the drumming on that, but it's more breezy than "astounding."
As time goes on, I'm less impressed with showy playing. Just the opposite, actually - the more someone's playing can be subsumed in the service of the music, the more I like it. Put it this way: as simple as the drumming on North Star sounds, a drummer would need to have much more technique, then have the discipline (!!!) to reign it in, to pull it off. Someone who can only play in a more rudimentary way couldn't do this as well. It's not just about how much you flash you put into your tom-tom rolls or how many cymbals you can hit or whatever, it's how much you can make the song swing, how much room you leave for everything else, stuff like that. I think he plays well with others really good on that one, because he's not doing anything to draw attention to himself. These two things (obvious displays of technique and sensitivity to the groove) are not mutually exclusive, by the way, but that much should be obvious.

I looked up to see what other songs on Exposure feature Collins on drums, and the only other one is Disengage. It's more heavy, but again, probably nothing that would amaze you. At any rate, the most impressive drumming on that album is done by Narada Michael Walden, and those are showcases for the drummer to let loose, unlike the two with Collins. So that's one way to look at it, for whatever that's worth.



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Re: Phil Collins plays well with others

Postby pcqgod » 06 Aug 2018, 19:53

Darkness_Fish wrote:
pcqgod wrote:His drumming on that Frida single is godlike.


Diamond Dog wrote:I can only suggest you play "The Carpet Crawlers" or the whole of "The Lamb Lies Down...." He may be a loathsome twat but, as a drummer, he is a Titan.

Seriously though, I'm not being antagonistic or awkward, I genuinely want to hear something special from Phil, but that Frida track seems like fairly bog-standard drumming to me.


It's not standard, at all. :lol: Aside from other tracks on which Phil played something similar, I can't think of a single other recording that has a drum part based on a drum pattern like that. It's an essential part of what makes the single so great.
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Re: Phil Collins plays well with others

Postby trans-chigley express » 07 Aug 2018, 10:29

trans-chigley express wrote:
I made my own comp with the same theme many years ago. I'll try and find it and see what the tracklisting was as I can't remember off the top of my head.

found it, here's what I used (I didn't have or wasn't aware of some of the stuff listed on the official comp):

Down and Out - Genesis
Burning Down One Side - Robert Plant
No Self Control - Peter Gabriel
Some People Are Crazy - John Martyn
Walking on the Chinese Wall - Philip Baily
I Know There's Something Going On - Frida
No-one Receiving - Brian Eno
Which Way The Wind Blows - Anthony Philips (vocals only)
North Star - Robert Fripp
Star of Sirius - Steve Hackett
Taurus 1 - Mike Oldfield
...And So to F... - Brand X
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Re: Phil Collins plays well with others

Postby trans-chigley express » 07 Aug 2018, 10:30

I think the drumming on this is pretty great

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Re: Phil Collins plays well with others

Postby Hugh » 07 Aug 2018, 13:21

If you are looking for examples of technique over examples of feeel then have a listen to Moroccan Roll by Brand X where he is playing in a more obvious “jazz-rock drummer” style.