My unwavering musical principles!

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Phenomenal Cat
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Re: My unwavering musical principles!

Postby Phenomenal Cat » 03 Jul 2018, 02:18

LeBaron wrote:But my trip has always been specific antipathies. Jack White. Ian Svenonious. Ryan Adams. (non Birthday Party) Nick Cave. Archers of Loaf. And obsessive fans of things like Tom Waits or, say, Morphine, almost invariably aren’t going to lead me anywhere good. These defense mechanisms mostly did me right. I’m not really worried about it anymore.


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Re: My unwavering musical principles!

Postby Phenomenal Cat » 03 Jul 2018, 02:28

Bent Fabric wrote:In the late 1980s/early 1990s........I treated a LOT of "old man rock" like pure HAZMAT. There were people who went on tour and put out records around then whom I really sniffed at (a lot of those records are really not ever going to be my thing, to be fair) - concerts in stadiums or arenas were an absolute no no. I'm sure a lot of artists I'm seeing this year I could have seen dozens of times then for what a ticket now costs.


Oh God, yes. I remember you went to see Bowie on the Sound and Vision Tour and I was like, "Well, you enjoy that."

Idiots.
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Re: My unwavering musical principles!

Postby Bent Fabric » 03 Jul 2018, 13:12

pcqgod wrote:I almost never buy any punk albums recorded after 1990. Well, I mean I'll buy scuzzy, sleazy stuff like the Sinisters and New Bomb Turks, but nothing that whiffs of mohawks and leather jackets with slogans written on them and "Oi oi oi" etc. I have no problem buying retro 60's garage, retro stoner rock, probably anything retro. But not punk rock. Which means that somewhere it somehow still means something to me, in that I feel that only stuff recorded during a certain time period has any authenticity, I suppose. Or maybe that stuff seemed so inauthentic the first time around that I won't have a 30-years-too-late revisiting of it. Whichever.


I have my own version of this, for sure. Some innate respect for the sanctity of organic seeming events and moments, and some deep distaste for the sort of "surface re-enactment" of ancient history. All things get absorbed in some way - as they should - but the very notion of a person or people deliberately building a chintzy monument to an already extant monument that I can easily go see for myself...it seems like some massive affront to anyone who manages to bother with actual ideas.

There are exceptions for sure (the pastiche of the Rutles manages to work, and...there's some genuine personality and character behind something like High Llamas), but...basic minstrelsy is kind of "THAT'S what you came up with?"

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Re: My unwavering musical principles!

Postby Earl E. Eel » 03 Jul 2018, 13:21

Bent Fabric wrote:the very notion of a person or people deliberately building a chintzy monument to an already extant monument that I can easily go see for myself...it seems like some massive affront to anyone who manages to bother with actual ideas.


Beautifully put.
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Re: My unwavering musical principles!

Postby Phenomenal Cat » 03 Jul 2018, 16:09

ORORORO wrote:
Bent Fabric wrote:the very notion of a person or people deliberately building a chintzy monument to an already extant monument that I can easily go see for myself...it seems like some massive affront to anyone who manages to bother with actual ideas.


Beautifully put.


You can't imagine how many bands I played with that had '77 appended to their band name. It was like Halloween in July!
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Re: My unwavering musical principles!

Postby Bent Fabric » 03 Jul 2018, 16:58

It's a form of squatting.

I hesitate to even elevate it with words like "forgery".

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Re: My unwavering musical principles!

Postby Phenomenal Cat » 03 Jul 2018, 21:05

Bent Fabric wrote:It's a form of squatting.

I hesitate to even elevate it with words like "forgery".


These days we call it "branding".
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Re: My unwavering musical principles!

Postby Phenomenal Cat » 03 Aug 2018, 17:22

Here's one I just can't get past, and it's been around as long as my aversion to drum machines -

I can't stand singers who enunciate their words properly.

I just heard the lovely Marilyn McCoo sing "(Last Night) I Didn't Get to Sleep at All" like a newscaster and I couldn't stop laughing. It's the main reason why I can't get with a lot of Gentleman Rock, as well as older music in general.

And Lou Reed!

A hustle here and a hustle there
New York City is the place where they said...


Was he just handed someone else's lyrics? It's so clumsy and yet perfect to understand in its clarity. There is an early version of "19th Nervous Breakdown" where Mick is almost breaking it down word-by-word and it just blows.

And I readily admit that slurry words is just so "rock and roll" and the problem is all my own prejudice. But I'll never get past it.
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Re: My unwavering musical principles!

Postby bobzilla77 » 03 Aug 2018, 17:45

I can dig it. I've heard some of the Pistols early studio recordings, they sound woefully weak compared to the final Bollocks productions. And a big part of that is Rotten's singing, like he's in the studio for the first time and enunciating a little too clearly.

Chris Thomas said they had a lot of trouble recording his vocals, putting him in front of a ribbon mic with a windcreen in front of it was not cutting it. Finally they had the idea to give him an SM57 and let him run around holding it in his hand like it was a live show, and it completely changed the way he was singing
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Re: My unwavering musical principles!

Postby Charlie O. » 03 Aug 2018, 17:51

bobzilla77 wrote:Finally they had the idea to give him an SM57 and let him run around holding it in his hand like it was a live show, and it completely changed the way he was singing.

Don Gallucci did the same with Iggy on Fun House (don't know if it was that specific mic). Big difference in his singing from Album 1 to Album 2.
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Re: My unwavering musical principles!

Postby bobzilla77 » 03 Aug 2018, 22:36

Interesting!

I love that kind of thing. Recording is such a weird process and so permanent. It scares people. So I like it when people do eccentric things to change up the vibe, take their mind off what they're really doing so they can get loose. It really can break through that "red light syndrome".
Jimbo wrote:I guess I am over Graham Nash's politics. Hopelessly naive by the standards I've molded for myself these days.

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Re: My unwavering musical principles!

Postby Bent Fabric » 04 Aug 2018, 01:09

To my mind, in a recording scenario - the huge difference between the producer/engineer you walk out on and the one you stick with IS that hyper-acute sensitivity to kick ass results and the relationship between process and performer. I think anyone whose been in a few studios can absolutely identify the difference from memory...there are technicians who get blithely stuck on some performance killing series of procedure, and then there's the ones who can get magic out of anyone just by knowing how (and how not) to RESPOND to the people and events - you can't teach it: being in a scenario where conventional methods aren't getting the desired result, immediately tuning into this, instantly troubleshooting it, trying an unconventional technique (placebo or not)...these are the ones you keep.

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Re: My unwavering musical principles!

Postby Quaco » 04 Aug 2018, 20:34

Bent Fabric wrote:actual ideas

I've been thinking about this thread since it started, trying to come up with an unwavering musical principle of my own. In a way, what I like and don't like must be instinctive, because I've almost always loved things I didn't know but looked good, and generally not liked things that were recommended to me, whether personally or by a publication/PR machine. The closest I can come to a principle that I can point to, that I live/buy by, is: some kind of craft that eludes me. If there's something there that I don't think I could do pretty easily (whether it's technically easy or not, the second Toto album is something one can imagine the process behind easily), or if there's an actual idea I haven't heard before, then I will either like it or come to like it eventually.
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Re: My unwavering musical principles!

Postby Six String » 05 Aug 2018, 18:09

I won't go to a venue larger than the Fillmore. My last stadium show was 1989. No more. I prefer clubs/cafes these days.

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Re: My unwavering musical principles!

Postby The Slider » 06 Aug 2018, 12:53

I will not go to a show at a venue where I cannot see the whites of the performers' eyes.
That counts for opera / theatre / orchestral concerts as well as 'pop' music.
I will go to larger venues if I have good reserved seats, but even then I'd rather not.
I will not ever go to the O2 Arena - not if Hendrix and The Beatles were playing a double header with Elvis opening for them. It is a soulless shithole.

I will not go to festivals, or indeed any open air shows. I have broken that rule twice for Neil Young (I broke the O2 one for him too, much to my chagrin) and I shall not again.

Anything bigger than Shepherds Bush Empire is a no no these days
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Re: My unwavering musical principles!

Postby Phenomenal Cat » 06 Aug 2018, 16:17

Quaco wrote:If there's something there that I don't think I could do pretty easily (whether it's technically easy or not, the second Toto album is something one can imagine the process behind easily), or if there's an actual idea I haven't heard before, then I will either like it or come to like it eventually.


I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but as someone who plays music, I do tend to value those things that are totally alien to my technique. On the other hand, I've had people recommend certain bands, saying "Their drummer is a MONSTER", and I listen, thinking "I can do that" so in the end I end up not liking it. Is this what you mean?
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Re: My unwavering musical principles!

Postby Bent Fabric » 06 Aug 2018, 16:21

Well, some element of surprise or novelty.

Right off the bat, there's people I can think of who - when I first heard them - I thought "I couldn't get near this in a million years. This barely makes sense, but...how utterly satisfying!"

That's a way bigger thrill than, say, Green Day.

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Re: My unwavering musical principles!

Postby gash’s trollish obsession » 06 Aug 2018, 21:09

There’s a lot of truth here.

One of the reasons I was turned off mid-late 80s indie (yer shamblers/C86 lot onwards) was because, as rudimentary as my own instrumental prowess was, I thought I could do better.

Why listen to that?

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Re: My unwavering musical principles!

Postby the masked man » 06 Aug 2018, 21:45

Yeah, the fetishisation of incompetence really put me off indie in the late 80s. I don't want every guitar-based group to pretend to be Steve Vai, but I do expect a certain of knowing what bands are doing when they play. It's just courtesy. So most indie doesn't pass my test anymore.

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Re: My unwavering musical principles!

Postby bobzilla77 » 06 Aug 2018, 22:24

"Fetishization of incompetence" is an interesting way to put it. That's no more fun than the fetishization of competence, listening to boring fusion albums for the killer drum licks. It's probably less fun - at least those fusion guys occasionally spark some ambition in a young player.

The Ramones are kind of the poster boys for "shitty musicians" but just listen to that first album. They were not incompetent. They grooved, they had power. It was limited, but so are lots of things. People often say they were the band that made everyone else realize they, too could do things. They wouldn't have had that effect if they were shitty. But they worked within their limitations, knew their own strength and cut out everything they didn't like out of the songs. I don't care what kind of sound you want to make, that's a good role model.
Jimbo wrote:I guess I am over Graham Nash's politics. Hopelessly naive by the standards I've molded for myself these days.