Prince or Stevie Wonder?

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Who floats your boat most?

a) Prince
16
40%
b) Stevie
24
60%
 
Total votes: 40

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Goat Boy
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Re: Prince or Stevie Wonder?

Postby Goat Boy » 07 Jun 2018, 17:10

gash on ignore wrote:He’s Zappa for the mirrored-ceiling boudoir set ;)


Now you’re getting NASTY
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Re: Prince or Stevie Wonder?

Postby gash on ignore » 07 Jun 2018, 17:13

Oh I’m sorry. It’s only little blokes in leather bikini briefs that are allowed to be NASTY now?
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Re: Prince or Stevie Wonder?

Postby sloopjohnc » 07 Jun 2018, 17:25

Goat Boy wrote:I imagine he was a VERY GENEROUS LOVER


:lol:

One of the things about Prince, and Wonder did this some, was collaborate and write for other artists, like the Bangles. But he also did stuff for Sheena Easton, Jesse Johnson, Vanity, Wendy & Lisa, Mavis Staples, Chaka Khan, etc.

And of course, there was Sheila E. I think Erotic City and Love Bizarre are two of his best - Both were great 12"s on the dance floor.



I can't speak to him as sex partner, although it seems some members definitely fantasize about it. I just hope they don't moan, "Oh, Prince. . . " when they are with current partners.
Last edited by sloopjohnc on 07 Jun 2018, 17:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Prince or Stevie Wonder?

Postby Goat Boy » 07 Jun 2018, 17:26

gash on ignore wrote:Oh I’m sorry. It’s only little blokes in leather bikini briefs that are allowed to be NASTY now?


You’re not man enough to be NASTY with me
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Re: Prince or Stevie Wonder?

Postby Pansy Puff » 07 Jun 2018, 17:32

Goat Boy wrote:
gash on ignore wrote:On Innervisions it’s the anti-authenticity that thrills, those 70s synth sounds, that gloopy funk.

I don’t think Prince’s weaknesses -his promiscuous profligacy, his narcissism - can be blamed on the 80s though. I loved him as a Pop star - 1999, Purple Rain - less so when he had to show us his chops or social conscience. I found it hard to accept that he gave a fuck about anyone else.


I don’t think he was narcissistic on record bar the odd thing like Cream. That was part of his stage presence, the James Brown thing. He was into exploring sex and romance from all angles, including the female one.

I imagine he was a VERY GENEROUS LOVER

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Re: Prince or Stevie Wonder?

Postby Bent Fabric » 07 Jun 2018, 18:33

Goat Boy wrote:Some of this just comes down to 80s v 70s. I honestly don’t find those 70s synths any more appealing that Prince’s 80s ones. Some of them actually jar even more to my ears. I think Prince used technology in a much more adventurous and satisfying way. On 1999 he’s creating his own synthesised sound world.


I said something recently about something or other that I either love or like a lot where...the essence was basically that "The very thing I love about it strikes me as a deeply valid repellent to one who is repelled by it." Perhaps a generic statement on the face of it, but...I know you know and understand the phenomenon.

And so goes it with the warm, fat, "arms around you" wall to wall carpeting of synthesizers going straight into the board in the service of Wonder's wall to wall balladry. There's not much I love more than the bit of "Superwoman (Where Were You When I Needed You)" where it transitions between the two parts with all of this sweet, emotive, gooey synthesizer melodrama. I have a fairly vivid memory of hearing that album side for the first time and just...being unspeakably moved by that particular event.

However...without even applying any real deliberate objectivity, it's no stretch whatsoever for me to imagine someone hearing these sounds and these choices and their overall effect and just being kind of grossed out or put off...maybe the way you would by an overly tactile person insistently giving you a hug when you don't especially want one.

I'd had control of the van stereo one day early during a tour (a tour on which I swear we were playing "Darling Nikki" in the act) many years ago. I'd chosen a cassette with two of the early 70s Stevie Wonder LPs and...honestly, it was tolerated, at best. Wrong place, wrong time, wrong day, wrong setting, wrong personnel, wrong soundtrack. To my own ears, it was less satisfying in that moment. The takeaway was no more than some sort of teachable moment about the importance of intuiting the right tool for the job in these scenarios.

I can't get enough of all those slow, syrupy numbers ("Visions", "You've Got It Bad Girl", "Golden Lady", "Looking For Another Love", "Joy Inside My Tears", "Knocks Me Off My Feet", "Saturn", "I Believe", etc.), but...I really don't need to strain my point of view even a little bit to see them in a less favorable light (I think that sound and style could be as oppressive as Crass or Swans, if you weren't up for it).

What happens on a thread at BCB is no matter of earth shaking importance (and I assuredly voted for Stevie), but there is some part of me that sees something I love about Prince perhaps not receiving its due, or...perhaps not being extrapolated and celebrated as fully and convincingly as it could be. There are these oddball combinations of things and really ballsy choices that work like fucking magic and really...to my way of thinking, it isn't possible to overpraise them. If the likes of "The Beautiful Ones" or "Take Me With U" were all I were given to work with, I'd happily celebrate them as fulsomely as I've celebrated anything (they are "uber Prince" in some way). Ditto the sequence on Side One of Around... ("Condition...", "Raspberry Beret", "Tambourine") - it's an incredibly rich and varied meal, and - arguably - where his "Does he or doesn't he?" Todd Rundgren influence really flowers fullest.

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Re: Prince or Stevie Wonder?

Postby sloopjohnc » 07 Jun 2018, 18:43

Bent Fabric wrote:and - arguably - where his "Does he or doesn't he?" Todd Rundgren influence really flowers fullest.


I think this is what's called "burying the lead," as Goatboy is a huge Rundgren fan.

It makes sense now.
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Re: Prince or Stevie Wonder?

Postby gash on ignore » 07 Jun 2018, 18:46

There’s no question that peak Prince (Purple Rain) is as good as peak Stevie (Innervisions). That record is the one where he got everything right, its greatness amplified by its phenomenal performance in the marketplace. My disappointment was that I felt he retreated from that. And of course, he broke up the band.
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Re: Prince or Stevie Wonder?

Postby Bent Fabric » 07 Jun 2018, 18:52

gash on ignore wrote:There’s no question that peak Prince (Purple Rain) is as good as peak Stevie (Innervisions). That record is the one where he got everything right, its greatness amplified by its phenomenal performance in the marketplace. My disappointment was that I felt he retreated from that. And of course, he broke up the band.


The fact that I am presently looking down at two tickets to see the Revolution (in October) on my desk says a LOT about the magic of that band. No one is begging the NPG to tour without the maestro.

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Re: Prince or Stevie Wonder?

Postby Diamond Dog » 07 Jun 2018, 18:56

SITKOL v SOTT? That's an interesting one..but I think Stevie edges that.

Prince's greatest single album, for me, is "Parade"..... is that better than "Innervisions"? It's mighty close.

"Purple Rain" v "Talking Book"? For me, Purple Rain.


The point for me is you could match up like-for-like of their top five or six and it would be mighty close...... Stevie's 70s v Prince's 80s.

I really can't decide!
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Re: Prince or Stevie Wonder?

Postby Positive Passion » 07 Jun 2018, 20:35

I would pick Prince, but i have lustened to lot more prince than stevie. However prince did not achieve anything as good as superstition.

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Re: Prince or Stevie Wonder?

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 07 Jun 2018, 21:42

Diamond Dog wrote:SITKOL v SOTT? That's an interesting one..but I think Stevie edges that.

Prince's greatest single album, for me, is "Parade"..... is that better than "Innervisions"? It's mighty close.

"Purple Rain" v "Talking Book"? For me, Purple Rain.


The point for me is you could match up like-for-like of their top five or six and it would be mighty close...... Stevie's 70s v Prince's 80s.

I really can't decide!


We should do threads on all of those. I might actually take Sign over Key. But I’d take Stevie’s records by far in those other matchups.
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Re: Prince or Stevie Wonder?

Postby Ranking Ted » 07 Jun 2018, 22:56

fange wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:I've not actually decided myself yet - but I would say I'm much more inclined to listen to Prince than Stevie these days. Don't get me wrong - I still love Stevie's best when I do play it but I play it much less than Prince.

This is how i feel, but just with the names the other way around.

Yes, this. I think its clear that everyone - or nearly everyone - appreciates these as the giants they are/were, its just a case of personal preference.

For Prince, its the Dirty Mind/Controversy sound thats currently most appealing with the obvious run of top end aceness from PR to SOTT being the 'lode. If PR and SOTT were his most commercially successful records, its a case of the public getting it bang on - they capture him on fire. I absolutely agree with the steep decline/funkified blandness view of the post SOTT years, though - way too much and not enough at the same time.

For Stevie, it obviously gets patchy into SITKOL and thereafter - indeed, some of the canon albums have their longeurs too. But the best of him - and it was a torrent for a long time - is joyous and ecstatic and natural. I've been particularly digging the LPs just before his critical peak - Signed Sealed And Delivered, Where I'm Coming From - that capture that effervescence untamed.

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Re: Prince or Stevie Wonder?

Postby Bent Fabric » 07 Jun 2018, 23:00

Where I'm Coming From (gloriously imperfect) captures, for me, the sound of a guy right on the outer perimeter of discovering fire or something.

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Re: Prince or Stevie Wonder?

Postby Robert » 07 Jun 2018, 23:02

The Venerable B. Eef wrote:
Jimbo wrote:Songs in the Key of Life changed my life.

I was depressed - clinically, I'd say. But I had a stereo and bought SITKOL and was awed by how wonderful it was, how like a Beatles album, so rich, so complete, so varied, so unexpected, me not a particular Stevie fan. It gave me hope for the future of music. For my future.


That's nice to hear. And the Beatles comparisons ring true - the album does have that richness and that musicality.

I like some Stevie but the 60s/early 70s singles - I Was Made To Love Her, For Once In My Life, My Cherie Amour, Signed, Sealed, Delivered, Yester-Me... - move me way more than albums like Innervisions (which is invariably singled out for praise, but I find too rich and gloopy).


I'm not a fan of Prince - altho' every few months I'll try again. I bought the Purple Rain remaster a few weeks ago, I don't know why. It's like everything he does - every musical choice - is wrong for me. All flash and falsetto. And like many people, I find those 80s sounds a real turn-off.

Maybe I should try with Parade again - I dug it as an 18-year-old.


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Re: Prince or Stevie Wonder?

Postby Your Friendly Neighbourhood Postman » 07 Jun 2018, 23:18

It isn't about floating boats at all -

Stevie Wonder had true and unforgettable peaks, and also produced bland AOR (and that is putting it mildly). Just like Brian Wilson did.

Prince is somehow an example of ever diminishing returns for me, after some fine moments.

Stevie's work, in my memory, never became volatile. Prince's did, for the most part.

And that is it.
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Re: Prince or Stevie Wonder?

Postby toomanyhatz » 07 Jun 2018, 23:31

gash on ignore wrote:Part of the trouble with Prince was no matter how much you loved him it was evident that he loved himself more. His self-regard and narcissism was very distancing and that played into the deluge of recordings, too much, even at his peak.


In the end, to play Jr. Shrink, I always got the sense that this actually stemmed from deep, deep insecurity. Prince wanted so badly to be loved, while Stevie (at least when he was 'on') acted like he knew he was. Stevie's best music just sounds so much more effortless than Prince's. Prince always cared much more about making an impression.

Prince was better later because he was always looking over his own shoulder. Stevie made very uninteresting music once he had nobody - including himself - to tell him no.
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Re: Prince or Stevie Wonder?

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 08 Jun 2018, 00:13

I just don’t even think “peak” Prince records sounded all that great. At least...not even in the realm of Stevie’s best.

I wasn’t just the keyboard sounds. With some admittedly glorious exceptions along the way, even his good records sounded pretty soupy.
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Re: Prince or Stevie Wonder?

Postby Dayodead » 08 Jun 2018, 00:41

"Prince ? Ain't that a bitch ? That skinny motherfucker with the high voice ?." ...lol...I think Prince needs to die again, so the praise train can stop at his station once more...Some undue bashing going on...
Stevie was always a singles artist for me..never thought much of his deep tracks aside from a given few...The Prince run from Dirty Mind through SOTT is amazing and the spottier aftermath has some real gems to be found...The places Prince runs afoul completely for me are when he gets too religious and in his later period, when the production gets way too "clean"....

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Re: Prince or Stevie Wonder?

Postby Pansy Puff » 08 Jun 2018, 08:17

A posthumous album from the US musician Prince has been announced on what would have been his 60th birthday.

The nine-track album will contain previously unreleased recordings, including early versions of his hit Purple Rain, his estate said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/entertai ... s-44401051
The new album, called Prince & A Microphone 1983 will contain a 1983 home studio recording made on a cassette tape of Prince playing on his piano
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