The BCB blue-eyed soul thread

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The BCB blue-eyed soul thread

Postby fange » 30 May 2018, 02:54

Ok BCB, blue-eyed soul - what is it?

What do you think of it?

Who were its best exponents? Who were its worst?

Post some of your fave cuts, albums, thoughts, etc.
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Re: The BCB blue-eyed soul thread

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 30 May 2018, 03:30

I love a lot of music called Blue Eyed Soul...but I kinda hate the term.

Couldn’t we just call it “soul?”
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Re: The BCB blue-eyed soul thread

Postby fange » 30 May 2018, 03:38

Sure. Discussing whether the term itself is even needed is something worth thinking about. I put "neo-soul" in the same basket.
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Re: The BCB blue-eyed soul thread

Postby Muskrat » 30 May 2018, 03:46





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Re: The BCB blue-eyed soul thread

Postby toomanyhatz » 30 May 2018, 04:37

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:I love a lot of music called Blue Eyed Soul...but I kinda hate the term.

Couldn’t we just call it “soul?”


You mean "why play the race card?" :lol:

I kinda like the term. It doesn't directly say 'white soul' but suggests it. Some great Blue-eyed soul singers:

Frankie Miller
Mitch Ryder
The Righteous Brothers
Hall and Oates (at their best)
Boz Scaggs (at his best)
Mike Farris (the current king)
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Re: The BCB blue-eyed soul thread

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 30 May 2018, 04:39

fange wrote:Sure. Discussing whether the term itself is even needed is something worth thinking about. I put "neo-soul" in the same basket.


At least “neo” gives you a sense of the music’s vintage.

That feels more useful than identifying the race of the performer.
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Re: The BCB blue-eyed soul thread

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 30 May 2018, 04:44

toomanyhatz wrote:
Davey the Fat Boy wrote:I love a lot of music called Blue Eyed Soul...but I kinda hate the term.

Couldn’t we just call it “soul?”


You mean "why play the race card?" :lol:


Well...what exactly does breaking out a sub-genere based entirely on identity contribute?

Does the “whiteness” of blue-eyed soul records add a musical element that makes it special?

That’s actually a serious question. Maybe it does?
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Re: The BCB blue-eyed soul thread

Postby toomanyhatz » 30 May 2018, 05:13

Yeah, to be serious about it myself it is an interesting question - I mean, genres have a long history of being described by the identity of the performer - from "race music" to R&B to soul to, now, "urban." I mean, I don't want to be "it's all just music" about it either, but maybe we've gone a bit backwards in a way. I mean, with the radio we grew up on, they'd play Charlie Rich, then Led Zeppelin, then Al Green. And in the 50s, of course, the same records would top country and R&B charts. Maybe it's too late now to go back, since you don't just get the music now, you get a whole visual identity as part of the package. Maybe the way to go IS to just define the musical part, since the visual is now incredibly obvious...

I think maybe why I like the term "blue-eyed soul" is it almost seems like a kind of sarcastic/sardonic way of dealing with the identity part of things. Acknowledging it, but also being obvious about the fact that it's only the identity that's being discussed. I don't have an answer, but agree it's an interesting question...
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Re: The BCB blue-eyed soul thread

Postby toomanyhatz » 30 May 2018, 05:40

Now that I think about it, one reason why it might be "important" in some sense is to be a signifier that it's a white person performing a music form that "belongs to" (or at least originates with) black people. Not that white people shouldn't perform the music that they're inspired to, particularly if they're good at it, but there's certainly a long history of cultural appropriation of that kind - think of how blues festivals now include all manner of white flash guitarists, for example. Great if that's what you're into, but it ain't blues. There could be some danger (and we can argue the degree of course) of, if you just refer to it as merely "soul," that soul will start being defined to some degree as music performed by white people.
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Re: The BCB blue-eyed soul thread

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 30 May 2018, 05:45

Hatz...I wrote the post below before I saw your latest. I think we cover some similar ground...but here’s what I wrote:

Okay...this feels a bit unsavory to say but...let’s start off with the uncomfortable semi-truth that sometimes white voices and black voices sound different. Not always - but often enough. I suppose there is something kind of specifically appealing about the way The Righteous Brothers sounded that might be held up. But listen to The Knight Brothers sing “Temptation’s ‘Bout To Get Me” and it certainly seems like it belongs in the same genre.

Doo-Wop had white voices and black voices, but there wasn’t a “blue-eyed Doo-Wop.” For all the regressiveness of its fans...was Charlie Pride ever held up as Brown Eyed Country? Is Darius Rucker today?

There’s something else though. Maybe it is about how connected to the black experience soul music is. I suppose that when you pointed to a “blue-eyed” practitioner- the subtext is that it is an amazing feat of some kind for a white person to be able to do it. Like Larry Bird in the NBA. Almost every white soul act of the classic era does have a story about how Black people accepted them as a kind of validation myth.

Or maybe the term means, “music that has all of the trappings of soul music Without being tied to the black experience.”

I don’t know. Just thinking aloud.
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Re: The BCB blue-eyed soul thread

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 30 May 2018, 06:02

Anyhow...maybe it can be argued that the separate distinction acts as a bulwark against cultural appropriation. But I doubt that was what it was used for in 1968.
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Re: The BCB blue-eyed soul thread

Postby sloopjohnc » 30 May 2018, 06:07

toomanyhatz wrote:Mike Farris (the current king)


Good call out.
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Re: The BCB blue-eyed soul thread

Postby sloopjohnc » 30 May 2018, 06:09

The first ones I remember hearing.

The Rascals
Spencer Davis Group
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Re: The BCB blue-eyed soul thread

Postby Earl E. Eel » 30 May 2018, 06:58

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Okay...this feels a bit unsavory to say but...let’s start off with the uncomfortable semi-truth that sometimes white voices and black voices sound different.


:lol:

Ooof - tread carefully there, Brother D!
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Re: The BCB blue-eyed soul thread

Postby Loki » 30 May 2018, 07:45

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Re: The BCB blue-eyed soul thread

Postby Samoan » 30 May 2018, 11:11

fange wrote:Who were its best exponents?

Amy Winehouse reigns supreme.
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Re: The BCB blue-eyed soul thread

Postby Hugh » 30 May 2018, 12:22

Samoan wrote:
fange wrote:Who were its best exponents?

Amy Winehouse reigns supreme.


Dusty would like a word about that.

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Re: The BCB blue-eyed soul thread

Postby Samoan » 30 May 2018, 13:18

Hugh wrote:
Samoan wrote:
fange wrote:Who were its best exponents?

Amy Winehouse reigns supreme.


Dusty would like a word about that.

Matter of opinion, Dusty's voice comes from her head and is devoid of soulfulness.
Amy's comes from her gut.
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Re: The BCB blue-eyed soul thread

Postby gash’s trollish obsession » 30 May 2018, 14:59

I always took blue-eyed soul to mean whitey adding a large dash of pure pop to soulful forms - Todd, Emmitt, Lx, Free Design, Macca, Hall and Oates. Wikipedia disagrees.
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Re: The BCB blue-eyed soul thread

Postby sloopjohnc » 30 May 2018, 15:31

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Okay...this feels a bit unsavory to say but...let’s start off with the uncomfortable semi-truth that sometimes white voices and black voices sound different.


When you hear a lot of black singers being interviewed, they almost always say they started singing in church. Justin Timberlake started singing in church, so maybe, just maybe, that's why he can tread in that world.

But, there are lots of country singers who are the same, so I don't know if that theory holds water.

One theory: If you've ever been to an african-american church, musical expression is much more unfettered. There's more pain to be released cuz black folks have to keep it in so much when dealing with the white world. I've said this before, but my former brother-in-law is black. Attending family functions with his side of the family and being the only white guy there, black people definitely let their guard down amongst themselves. It's a whole different vibe than if you encountered folks in larger society.

Speech is largely modeled and so examples are extended down the line.

White folks are more repressed, and maybe that extends to the vocal cords. And UK folks more than American white folks. The exceptions stand out.
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