Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Do talk back

Well?

Arthur
18
43%
Nick
16
38%
Roger
8
19%
 
Total votes: 42

User avatar
pcqgod
Posts: 17354
Joined: 11 Apr 2010, 07:23
Location: Texas

Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby pcqgod » 08 May 2018, 01:58

Rog
Art
Nick
Where would rock 'n' roll be without feedback?

User avatar
take5_d_shorterer
Posts: 5742
Joined: 22 Sep 2003, 23:09
Location: photo. by Andor Kertesz, Hung.

Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 08 May 2018, 02:22

jimboo wrote:Drake couldn't half play guitar


There are undoubtably people out there who think that Skip James couldn't play guitar either, but they remain hidden mostly because they don't air these opinions out in public.

There's a reason they choose not to do this.

User avatar
Belle Lettre
Éminence grise
Posts: 15732
Joined: 09 Oct 2008, 07:16
Location: Antiterra

Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby Belle Lettre » 08 May 2018, 08:12

Arthur
Nikki Gradual wrote:
Get a fucking grip you narcissistic cretins.

User avatar
Rayge
Posts: 13661
Joined: 14 Aug 2013, 11:37
Location: deepest Devon
Contact:

Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby Rayge » 08 May 2018, 08:20

take5_d_shorterer wrote:
jimboo wrote:Drake couldn't half play guitar


There are undoubtably people out there who think that Skip James couldn't play guitar either, but they remain hidden mostly because they don't air these opinions out in public.

There's a reason they choose not to do this.


In the UK 'couldn't half' or 'can't half' is an idiom of high approbation that suggests an absolute master of a particular art or craft.
In timeless moments we live forever

You can't play a tune on an absolute

Negative Capability...when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, Mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact & reason”

User avatar
Darkness_Fish
Posts: 6362
Joined: 27 Jul 2015, 09:58

Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby Darkness_Fish » 08 May 2018, 09:17

Five Leaves Left is magnificent, so Nick wins easily for me. Produced by Joe Boyd, has Danny Thompson on bass, that's pretty much what I want from a 60s album.

Not really bothered about any other Nick Drake album, but I'd still probably listen to them above anything by Arthur or Syd.
Like fast-moving clouds casting shadows against a hillside, the melody-loop shuddered with a sense of the sublime, the awful unknowable majesty of the world.

User avatar
The Write Profile
2017 BCB Cup Champ
Posts: 14694
Joined: 15 Sep 2003, 10:55
Location: Today, Tomorrow, Timaru
Contact:

Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby The Write Profile » 08 May 2018, 09:33

It's a tricky one as two of the artists produced three LPs that I unreservedly (ahem) love, while the other released some astonishing, era-defining singles and an astonishing, era-defining album.

I guess it's down to mood. Nick Drake's records have been described as "frozen in immaturity" by none other than his biographer, and it's true that they deal a lot in collegiate concerns, but there's an incredible beauty in his work. I"m thinking of the shifting moods of "Fly" that is both desperate and yearning, or the way he practically touches the clouds with "Northern Sky", or the oddly hymnal quality to "Pink Moon". All three of those LPs are perfect in their own way, and there's something very compact about his work. A lot of it is informed by depression, I guess, but what sticks out for me is level-headed it is: even Pink Moon, which is as stark as music can get, has moments of levity amidst the gloom.

Arthur Lee deals in wilder mood swings, indeed Forever Changes is constantly at war with itself, one moment singing for the heavens, the next moment deeply paranoid and angry. I guess you could call the s/t debut crude in comparison, but that would be denying its fervent and forthright approach to the songs: all of them really attack and there's very little filler, even the lesser tracks don't stick around long enough to gall. Meanwhile Da Capo is half a great record (no guessing which half!), but what a half! From the accusatory "Stephanie Knows Who", the fiery "Seven and Seven Is" and the calmly beautiful "She Comes In Colours", it really covers a wide swoop of approaches and emotions.

Syd Barrett is probably the most influential of the three, and Piper At the Gates of Dawn rocks like such a bastard it's easy to ignore how close it comes to sheer madness ("that cat's something I can't explain indeed), and everything about it just sounds right, and the indulgences are not only earned, they're warranted. And of course, "Arnold Layne" and "See Emily Play" practically invented an entire genre of rock thanks to their capricious, quick-witted and unconventional songwriting. I admit I haven't really got stuck into the Madcap Laughs- I'm worried it might sound too much like an ill man struggling for some clarity.
It's before my time but I've been told, he never came back from Karangahape Road.

User avatar
take5_d_shorterer
Posts: 5742
Joined: 22 Sep 2003, 23:09
Location: photo. by Andor Kertesz, Hung.

Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 08 May 2018, 17:50

Rayge wrote:
take5_d_shorterer wrote:
jimboo wrote:Drake couldn't half play guitar


There are undoubtably people out there who think that Skip James couldn't play guitar either, but they remain hidden mostly because they don't air these opinions out in public.

There's a reason they choose not to do this.


In the UK 'couldn't half' or 'can't half' is an idiom of high approbation that suggests an absolute master of a particular art or craft.


Thanks for the clarification. It makes sense now like the use of "bad" in American slang which inverts the original meaning into its opposite. In the case of "bad", my guess is that this was a deliberate attempt to confuse those who were outside a particular group. Don't know about "can't half".

User avatar
sloopjohnc
Posts: 63781
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 20:12

Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby sloopjohnc » 08 May 2018, 17:57

The Write Profile wrote:I admit I haven't really got stuck into the Madcap Laughs- I'm worried it might sound too much like an ill man struggling for some clarity.


Yes, and don't listen to Skip Spence's Oar for the same reason.
Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk!

User avatar
Rayge
Posts: 13661
Joined: 14 Aug 2013, 11:37
Location: deepest Devon
Contact:

Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby Rayge » 08 May 2018, 18:16

take5_d_shorterer wrote:Don't know about "can't half".


I think it comes originally from the phrase 'Not half' which implies completely, rather than 'not even half' which means a long way from Paradise, but sure, it's ambiguous. It's reminiscent of the way that in the US the idiom is 'I could care less' implying a definite lack, but not complete absence of caring, which in the UK is 'I couldn't care less', implying no caring at all.
In timeless moments we live forever

You can't play a tune on an absolute

Negative Capability...when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, Mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact & reason”

User avatar
take5_d_shorterer
Posts: 5742
Joined: 22 Sep 2003, 23:09
Location: photo. by Andor Kertesz, Hung.

Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 08 May 2018, 20:45

Once you stated the meaning of it, that's how I thought the meaning might have evolved.

"Can't half" might be a double negative like "not not" which is logically a positive.

While double negatives (e.g., "not untoward") can occur in American English, I usually associate them with British English.

When double negatives are used colloquially in the US, they are used for emphasis on the negative (e.g., "not nothing").

Returning to "bad", I think this was originally used to confuse people on the outside. A lot of this has to do with history of race in the United States.

Looking around on the web, some places are claiming that "can't half" originated in the East End.

This is getting far away from the original premise of the thread, but I'd rather talk about idiomatic use of English than whether or not people like Syd Barrett.

User avatar
Matt Wilson
Psychedelic Cowpunk
Posts: 29686
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 20:18
Location: Edge of a continent

Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby Matt Wilson » 08 May 2018, 21:44

Syd's getting trounced here.
John Coan wrote:I've lived in many different countries in Europe and whenever I come home I think 'England is the best'

User avatar
SWIMMING POOL HARRINGTON
hounds people off the board
Posts: 19530
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: selling a self-detonating James Last CD to a Copenhagen thrift store

Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby SWIMMING POOL HARRINGTON » 08 May 2018, 22:11

Protest votes.
Darkness_Fish wrote:This is a big fucking mess of absolute shit from the off.

User avatar
Goat Boy
Bogarting the joint
Posts: 32779
Joined: 20 Mar 2007, 12:11
Location: In the perfumed garden

Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby Goat Boy » 08 May 2018, 22:30

Pansy Puff wrote:Syd: I quite like Bike.


And to think you're allowed to teach children
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

User avatar
Goat Boy
Bogarting the joint
Posts: 32779
Joined: 20 Mar 2007, 12:11
Location: In the perfumed garden

Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby Goat Boy » 08 May 2018, 22:32

Hodgson's Tears wrote:Protest votes.


A BCB disgrace
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

User avatar
SWIMMING POOL HARRINGTON
hounds people off the board
Posts: 19530
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: selling a self-detonating James Last CD to a Copenhagen thrift store

Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby SWIMMING POOL HARRINGTON » 08 May 2018, 22:34

Childish
Darkness_Fish wrote:This is a big fucking mess of absolute shit from the off.

User avatar
Sneelock
Posts: 12314
Joined: 19 Nov 2011, 23:56
Location: Lincoln Head City

Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby Sneelock » 08 May 2018, 22:59

Syd. he maybe doesn't have that big a body of work but what's there is pretty singular. his influence on people who interest me is half the equation. the other half is how unique his work is. "madcap laughs" and "barrett" are objectively messy things - in and out of tune. in and out of key. they still have moments I find thrilling. he got something of himself in what he did. maybe it was a cry for help but maybe it was just the art he had to make. maybe both. I like all three guys but Syd was special. even without his back story the music stands, for me, on it's own merits.
Give me a C, a bouncy C!

User avatar
Davey the Fat Boy
Posts: 23774
Joined: 05 Jan 2006, 02:55
Location: Applebees

Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 08 May 2018, 23:46

Back when I was a performing musician and had to hire other musicians, I learned after a while to avoid any musician who mentioned Syd in the first conversation. Always the least imaginative players.
The opinions of this poster are subjective. That’s how opinions work.

Image

User avatar
Sneelock
Posts: 12314
Joined: 19 Nov 2011, 23:56
Location: Lincoln Head City

Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby Sneelock » 09 May 2018, 00:18

so, this reflects on Syd?
I don't usually like youngsters who idolize Lou Reed because he was a junkie.
it has fuck-all to do with how I feel about Lou Reed.
Give me a C, a bouncy C!

User avatar
Davey the Fat Boy
Posts: 23774
Joined: 05 Jan 2006, 02:55
Location: Applebees

Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 09 May 2018, 00:21

Nah...doesn’t mean a thing about Syd. Just a response to your comment about his influence on people who’ve influenced you. Another side of the same coin.
The opinions of this poster are subjective. That’s how opinions work.

Image

User avatar
Sneelock
Posts: 12314
Joined: 19 Nov 2011, 23:56
Location: Lincoln Head City

Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby Sneelock » 09 May 2018, 00:22

I'd like to hang out with those guys. we can do unimaginative things together!
Give me a C, a bouncy C!