Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Do talk back

Well?

Arthur
15
41%
Nick
15
41%
Roger
7
19%
 
Total votes: 37

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jimboo
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Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby jimboo » 07 May 2018, 18:36

Pansy is a flower and gay means happy , hope this helps.
Goat Boy wrote:Oh, do fuck off, prog boy.

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Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby gash on ignore » 07 May 2018, 18:37

:)
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

Diamond Dog wrote:I could of course be talking bollocks... let's see what any musicians have to say


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Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby gash on ignore » 07 May 2018, 18:38

Lear on sherbets? Sounds fucking ace!
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

Diamond Dog wrote:I could of course be talking bollocks... let's see what any musicians have to say


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Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby jimboo » 07 May 2018, 18:39

gash on ignore wrote:Lear on sherbets? Sounds fucking ace!


It should be , alas.
Goat Boy wrote:Oh, do fuck off, prog boy.

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Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby gash on ignore » 07 May 2018, 18:44

There once was a bald man named Hodgson
Who always, it seemed, had a strop on
His job was to judge
Those that he held a grudge
That frightful old bald man named Hodgson.
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

Diamond Dog wrote:I could of course be talking bollocks... let's see what any musicians have to say


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Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby gash on ignore » 07 May 2018, 18:49

There once was a fellow called Drake
Whose words mimsied out as he spake
Though he took up the plank
‘Twas assumed it was flank,
Not fanny, he liked to love-make.
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

Diamond Dog wrote:I could of course be talking bollocks... let's see what any musicians have to say


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Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby sloopjohnc » 07 May 2018, 19:21

Rayge wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote:
Rayge wrote:
Don't conflate the man with the persona presented by his songs, which was all I was talking about


One of the heroes of flight 93, one of the passengers who took down the plane in a field before terrorists could crash it into something else, was Mark Bingham, a star rugby player at University of California, Berkeley. He was 6' 4" and 225 lbs. Bingham also just happened to be gay.

Image


Thanks for that, John, but at no point have I suggested that anyone was gay, or that if they were there was anything wrong with it, or that, in fact, one can deduce anything at all from a person's sexuality other than who they like to fuck.
My problem with Nick Drake has nothing to do with his sexuality (about which I know nothing, and care less), just that when friends played me his music in the early 1970s (I certainly never listened to any of it since) I did not like it, and formed the opinion that while he was a nimble musician, his SONGS were self-referential and precious and not directed at me, while his whole image was one I found relentlessly bourgeois, over-delicate and childlike in a not-good way (pretty much my objections to prog, since I put it like that). This was the time of the acoustic singer-songwriter, and I didn't like any of them of them much, at least not the men. I liked Spector punk and balls-out rock and roll at the time, and the sound on their records was so fucking weedy. James Taylor? Tim Hardin? Tim Rose? Give it a fucking rest. If someone played me a Nick Drake record now, I couldn't pick it out of a line-up of similar fare, I'm sure, but generally, if I'm going to listen to a male voice and acoustic guitar, the songs are going to have to be really engaging, and his weren't.
Whereas Arthur and Syd (anyone care what their sexuality was? - I certainly don't give a shit), at more or less the same time, made records that had something at least to do with rock & roll; they excited and intrigued me, and I continued to listen to well into my 60s. So I voted for Arthur.
Sheesh ;)


As I wrote, it wasn't aimed at anyone.

I scanned the response about Drake being an athlete when younger as response to him being a pansy in his playing and immediately thought of Mark Bingham. His own mom had problems with him coming out.

If interested, here's a mini-documentary on the guy: http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=17403649

And I'm not piling on Coan either.

I'm sure he regrets the comment, hopefully, and it was just a glib description.

But the PC police seem to have their APB out and are looking to close the perimeter.

People say and write stupid stuff sometimes. I'm not going to hold an off-hand comment on here against someone.

If I really had a problem, I'd send them a PM anyway. Off the radar.

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Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby gash on ignore » 07 May 2018, 19:33



Stolid, dependable, unwavering heterosexuality in excelsis.
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

Diamond Dog wrote:I could of course be talking bollocks... let's see what any musicians have to say


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Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby Quaco » 07 May 2018, 19:42

gash on ignore wrote:Lear on sherbets? Sounds fucking ace!

Yeah check it out!

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Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby gash on ignore » 07 May 2018, 19:50

I ain’t eating no Salmon Pink ice cream man. Does it come in Airforce Blue?
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

Diamond Dog wrote:I could of course be talking bollocks... let's see what any musicians have to say


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Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby pcqgod » 08 May 2018, 01:58

Rog
Art
Nick
Where would rock 'n' roll be without feedback?

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Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 08 May 2018, 02:22

jimboo wrote:Drake couldn't half play guitar


There are undoubtably people out there who think that Skip James couldn't play guitar either, but they remain hidden mostly because they don't air these opinions out in public.

There's a reason they choose not to do this.

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Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby Belle Lettre » 08 May 2018, 08:12

Arthur
Nikki Gradual wrote:
Get a fucking grip you narcissistic cretins.

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Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby Rayge » 08 May 2018, 08:20

take5_d_shorterer wrote:
jimboo wrote:Drake couldn't half play guitar


There are undoubtably people out there who think that Skip James couldn't play guitar either, but they remain hidden mostly because they don't air these opinions out in public.

There's a reason they choose not to do this.


In the UK 'couldn't half' or 'can't half' is an idiom of high approbation that suggests an absolute master of a particular art or craft.
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Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby Darkness_Fish » 08 May 2018, 09:17

Five Leaves Left is magnificent, so Nick wins easily for me. Produced by Joe Boyd, has Danny Thompson on bass, that's pretty much what I want from a 60s album.

Not really bothered about any other Nick Drake album, but I'd still probably listen to them above anything by Arthur or Syd.
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Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby The Write Profile » 08 May 2018, 09:33

It's a tricky one as two of the artists produced three LPs that I unreservedly (ahem) love, while the other released some astonishing, era-defining singles and an astonishing, era-defining album.

I guess it's down to mood. Nick Drake's records have been described as "frozen in immaturity" by none other than his biographer, and it's true that they deal a lot in collegiate concerns, but there's an incredible beauty in his work. I"m thinking of the shifting moods of "Fly" that is both desperate and yearning, or the way he practically touches the clouds with "Northern Sky", or the oddly hymnal quality to "Pink Moon". All three of those LPs are perfect in their own way, and there's something very compact about his work. A lot of it is informed by depression, I guess, but what sticks out for me is level-headed it is: even Pink Moon, which is as stark as music can get, has moments of levity amidst the gloom.

Arthur Lee deals in wilder mood swings, indeed Forever Changes is constantly at war with itself, one moment singing for the heavens, the next moment deeply paranoid and angry. I guess you could call the s/t debut crude in comparison, but that would be denying its fervent and forthright approach to the songs: all of them really attack and there's very little filler, even the lesser tracks don't stick around long enough to gall. Meanwhile Da Capo is half a great record (no guessing which half!), but what a half! From the accusatory "Stephanie Knows Who", the fiery "Seven and Seven Is" and the calmly beautiful "She Comes In Colours", it really covers a wide swoop of approaches and emotions.

Syd Barrett is probably the most influential of the three, and Piper At the Gates of Dawn rocks like such a bastard it's easy to ignore how close it comes to sheer madness ("that cat's something I can't explain indeed), and everything about it just sounds right, and the indulgences are not only earned, they're warranted. And of course, "Arnold Layne" and "See Emily Play" practically invented an entire genre of rock thanks to their capricious, quick-witted and unconventional songwriting. I admit I haven't really got stuck into the Madcap Laughs- I'm worried it might sound too much like an ill man struggling for some clarity.
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Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 08 May 2018, 17:50

Rayge wrote:
take5_d_shorterer wrote:
jimboo wrote:Drake couldn't half play guitar


There are undoubtably people out there who think that Skip James couldn't play guitar either, but they remain hidden mostly because they don't air these opinions out in public.

There's a reason they choose not to do this.


In the UK 'couldn't half' or 'can't half' is an idiom of high approbation that suggests an absolute master of a particular art or craft.


Thanks for the clarification. It makes sense now like the use of "bad" in American slang which inverts the original meaning into its opposite. In the case of "bad", my guess is that this was a deliberate attempt to confuse those who were outside a particular group. Don't know about "can't half".

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Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby sloopjohnc » 08 May 2018, 17:57

The Write Profile wrote:I admit I haven't really got stuck into the Madcap Laughs- I'm worried it might sound too much like an ill man struggling for some clarity.


Yes, and don't listen to Skip Spence's Oar for the same reason.

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Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby Rayge » 08 May 2018, 18:16

take5_d_shorterer wrote:Don't know about "can't half".


I think it comes originally from the phrase 'Not half' which implies completely, rather than 'not even half' which means a long way from Paradise, but sure, it's ambiguous. It's reminiscent of the way that in the US the idiom is 'I could care less' implying a definite lack, but not complete absence of caring, which in the UK is 'I couldn't care less', implying no caring at all.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law, love under will

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Re: Arthur Lee v Nick Drake v Syd Barrett

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 08 May 2018, 20:45

Once you stated the meaning of it, that's how I thought the meaning might have evolved.

"Can't half" might be a double negative like "not not" which is logically a positive.

While double negatives (e.g., "not untoward") can occur in American English, I usually associate them with British English.

When double negatives are used colloquially in the US, they are used for emphasis on the negative (e.g., "not nothing").

Returning to "bad", I think this was originally used to confuse people on the outside. A lot of this has to do with history of race in the United States.

Looking around on the web, some places are claiming that "can't half" originated in the East End.

This is getting far away from the original premise of the thread, but I'd rather talk about idiomatic use of English than whether or not people like Syd Barrett.