Dylan versus Young

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Well....?

Bob Dylan
18
56%
Neil Young
14
44%
 
Total votes: 32

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toomanyhatz
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Re: Dylan versus Young

Postby toomanyhatz » 05 May 2018, 21:47

Interesting discussion here. Earlier Coan said Neil has more heart. Is "heart" in any way a necessary component of good songwriting? I vote no.
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Re: Dylan versus Young

Postby toomanyhatz » 05 May 2018, 21:49

Also, Young leaves great stuff in the can because he's moved on to the next thing already (and often his record companies have fought him tooth and nail, and I suspect there's times he'd rather just look ahead to the next thing than fight that fight). Dylan leaves great stuff in the can because he's not always a good judge of his own abilities.
Jimbo wrote:My point is to save the world from WWIII.

Jimbo wrote:Trump is right. The collusion conspiracy theory has been debunked and you seem to refuse to look at the evidence.

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Re: Dylan versus Young

Postby toomanyhatz » 05 May 2018, 21:51

Or possibly because he's a crank. :D
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Re: Dylan versus Young

Postby Pool Hall Richard » 05 May 2018, 21:56

Bob. Love both but just look at the quality of his outtakes, the bootleg series is AMAZING. Too much quality.

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Re: Dylan versus Young

Postby Matt Wilson » 05 May 2018, 22:14

toomanyhatz wrote:Also, Young leaves great stuff in the can because he's moved on to the next thing already (and often his record companies have fought him tooth and nail, and I suspect there's times he'd rather just look ahead to the next thing than fight that fight). Dylan leaves great stuff in the can because he's not always a good judge of his own abilities.


You're really stretching it now.
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Re: Dylan versus Young

Postby Jeemo » 05 May 2018, 22:17

Has Neil finished the guitar solo that he started last week?
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Re: Dylan versus Young

Postby BooHooHoo » 05 May 2018, 22:19

toomanyhatz wrote:Interesting discussion here. Earlier Coan said Neil has more heart. Is "heart" in any way a necessary component of good songwriting? I vote no.


Maybe not, but it helps endear you to the artist - that's important for me. As whatsisface pointed out upthread, there's only so much of Dylan's sneering you can take.
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Re: Dylan versus Young

Postby Matt Wilson » 05 May 2018, 22:21

:D You mean that's not one of your aliases? I really can't keep up...
goat boy wrote:For so long now Matt has BCB defined himself as being in opposition to Coan. He’s the Batman to their Joker but they can't deal with Batman ditching the gothic gloom of Gotham for Paris in the spring.

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Re: Dylan versus Young

Postby BooHooHoo » 05 May 2018, 22:23

8-)
GoogaMooga wrote:
Walk In My Shadow wrote:How's old Zilth, by the way?


He's alright, but not collecting as feverishly as I.

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Re: Dylan versus Young

Postby Matt Wilson » 05 May 2018, 22:27

John, there is absolutely no logic whatsoever in logging in to the same thread with two different names!
goat boy wrote:For so long now Matt has BCB defined himself as being in opposition to Coan. He’s the Batman to their Joker but they can't deal with Batman ditching the gothic gloom of Gotham for Paris in the spring.

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Re: Dylan versus Young

Postby toomanyhatz » 05 May 2018, 22:55

Matt Wilson wrote:
toomanyhatz wrote:Also, Young leaves great stuff in the can because he's moved on to the next thing already (and often his record companies have fought him tooth and nail, and I suspect there's times he'd rather just look ahead to the next thing than fight that fight). Dylan leaves great stuff in the can because he's not always a good judge of his own abilities.


You're really stretching it now.


Big stretch, yeah. :roll:

So he released "Blind Willie McTell" pretty much as soon as he wrote it, then? Put "The Groom's Still Waiting at the Altar" on the A-side? Kept Robbie Robertson from adding overdubs to the Basement Tapes?

Maybe he can judge his own abilities but just chooses to be irascible. But the list of times he's not released his best material on hand is a long one.
Jimbo wrote:My point is to save the world from WWIII.

Jimbo wrote:Trump is right. The collusion conspiracy theory has been debunked and you seem to refuse to look at the evidence.

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Re: Dylan versus Young

Postby Matt Wilson » 05 May 2018, 22:57

toomanyhatz wrote:
Matt Wilson wrote:
toomanyhatz wrote:Also, Young leaves great stuff in the can because he's moved on to the next thing already (and often his record companies have fought him tooth and nail, and I suspect there's times he'd rather just look ahead to the next thing than fight that fight). Dylan leaves great stuff in the can because he's not always a good judge of his own abilities.


You're really stretching it now.


Big stretch, yeah. :roll:

So he released "Blind Willie McTell" pretty much as soon as he wrote it, then?


That's not what's at issue here. It's your statement of what motivates Dylan not to release a song vs why Young doesn't.

As if you'd know...

:roll:
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Re: Dylan versus Young

Postby toomanyhatz » 05 May 2018, 23:04

I'm speculating, Matt. It's not as if I"m the only one to ever do that. And not as if my speculations are so wild.
Jimbo wrote:My point is to save the world from WWIII.

Jimbo wrote:Trump is right. The collusion conspiracy theory has been debunked and you seem to refuse to look at the evidence.

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Re: Dylan versus Young

Postby C » 05 May 2018, 23:07

Pool Hall Richard wrote:Bob. Love both but just look at the quality of his outtakes, the bootleg series is AMAZING. Too much quality.


Young's 'archive' stuff is pretty amazing too - Massey Hall, Fillmore East, CellAr Door et alia





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Re: Dylan versus Young

Postby Matt Wilson » 05 May 2018, 23:10

toomanyhatz wrote:I'm speculating, Matt. It's not as if I"m the only one to ever do that. And not as if my speculations are so wild.


Yes, Dave, obviously. Yet you say it with such conviction as if you KNOW why Bob doesn't release a song vs why Neil doesn't which amuses me.
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Re: Dylan versus Young

Postby Matt Wilson » 05 May 2018, 23:11

One more thing, I'd say Bob has 'moved on to the next thing' in his career far more than Young.
goat boy wrote:For so long now Matt has BCB defined himself as being in opposition to Coan. He’s the Batman to their Joker but they can't deal with Batman ditching the gothic gloom of Gotham for Paris in the spring.

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Re: Dylan versus Young

Postby toomanyhatz » 05 May 2018, 23:32

Matt Wilson wrote:One more thing, I'd say Bob has 'moved on to the next thing' in his career far more than Young.


My response to that is - the 80s. Bob's never done that degree of genre-jumping.

Not to mention that Bob's sound has changed very little in the last 20 years. Neil's may not've either, but his basic template is a bit wider.
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Jimbo wrote:Trump is right. The collusion conspiracy theory has been debunked and you seem to refuse to look at the evidence.

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Re: Dylan versus Young

Postby Bent Fabric » 06 May 2018, 00:03

toomanyhatz wrote:Is "heart" in any way a necessary component of good songwriting?


Fucked if I know, BUT - yeah, it might be. A person could get by without it, but they wouldn't quite be Neil Young.

My own goals as a writer certainly skew towards expecting to FEEL something or other.

As the question applies to Young (whom I voted for) I think he's got "all that other shit" that people get excited about in less compelling work ("it's a pretty melody", "it rocks", "odd little chord change/tension", "great sound", etc.) PLUS there's this big giant core of emotional resonance at the center of it like a big tuning fork of emotion or soul or whatever we call that sort of thing that makes his stuff just...sing, I guess.

I've held him as something of a northern star for so many reasons, but...also as an ongoing point of comparison (often with things that I like/love) because of this element.

Regarding my vote, Carlsson's line about (in essence) "Bob is amazing (and I really do love him so), but I play Neil way more regularly/often" is an undeniable factor.

I've seen Bob more than enough times. Whereas I'm presently going to Neil's website on a daily basis hoping for news of dates within a few hundred miles of my place.

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Re: Dylan versus Young

Postby sloopjohnc » 06 May 2018, 00:38

toomanyhatz wrote:Interesting discussion here. Earlier Coan said Neil has more heart. Is "heart" in any way a necessary component of good songwriting? I vote no.


Well, in fiction writing, it's a common dictum that you're supposed to love all your characters, even the shitheads. I don't think it's necessary, but I think it helps the reader or listener empathize with a character if a little motive is revealed, good or bad.
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Re: Dylan versus Young

Postby Matt Wilson » 06 May 2018, 00:40

toomanyhatz wrote:
Matt Wilson wrote:One more thing, I'd say Bob has 'moved on to the next thing' in his career far more than Young.


My response to that is - the 80s. Bob's never done that degree of genre-jumping.

Not to mention that Bob's sound has changed very little in the last 20 years. Neil's may not've either, but his basic template is a bit wider.


But all of Neil's genre-jumping was among his weakest stuff.

And I'd still say his template is very narrow. Usually, he does one of two things: Rocks with Crazy Horse, or does an acoustic, singer-songwriter type album.

He probably took both of those templates from Dylan.
goat boy wrote:For so long now Matt has BCB defined himself as being in opposition to Coan. He’s the Batman to their Joker but they can't deal with Batman ditching the gothic gloom of Gotham for Paris in the spring.