Billy Joel - Song By Song

[Matt Wilson]

I like this one:



Springsteen seems to agree:

[naughty boy]

Yeah.

[naughty boy]

Fuck man - he's WAY off in that live performance. Not a nice sound.

[Matt Wilson]

Billy? I was thinking that it was Bruce who was overselling it.

Looks like Billy fared no better on one of Bruce's songs:



Last one, I promise. Guess what Joel's favorite Bruce song is? Bet you don't see it coming:

[sloopjohnc]

Dickishness is a BCB tradition. I have at least a Masters in Dickdom, some here have a PHD.

Don't underestimate yourself.

[Snarfyguy]

HIs finest moment?



I don't think 1965-era Who has much to worry about.

[fange]

There are few BJ songs I can honestly say I enjoy, but this is one; maybe it's because he seems to be channeling John/Taupin via Broadway...

[sloopjohnc]

The only Billy Joel song I halfway like is Only the Good Die Young, and even with that, I wish someone else had done it.

What steams me more is how many people adore him and he's held up as this paragon of songwriting.

I woulda lined the fucker up against a firing squad after Piano Man. I see no virtue in that song whatsoever. And yet, people love it.

[Bent Fabric]

The only Billy Joel song I halfway like is Only the Good Die Young, and even with that, I wish someone else had done it.

What steams me more is how many people adore him and he's held up as this paragon of songwriting.

I woulda lined the fucker up against a firing squad after Piano Man. I see no virtue in that song whatsoever. And yet, people love it.

"The Billy Joel problem" described as succinctly as one could ever hope for.

I mean, if something like "Piano Man" is your "Good Vibrations", you probably deserve every last shred of invective that the world can muster.

[George P. Smackers]

Yeah, "Piano Man" was going to be my exhibit A in making the case that he's a dick. He seems to want to be perceived as having sympathy for the poor losers he's entertaining but can't resist pointing out by the end that he's not as loser like them.

Also "Big Shot." What a dickish song and what the fuck is that "Puerto Rican" accent he does. Jesus Christ.

[fange]

...commits every bad songwriting sin - wordiness, over-emoting, gratuitous sentimentality

This is what hatzy said about Neil Diamond, but i think it fits BJ much more snugly. The frontbar philospher schtick of 'Piano Man', 'My Life' and 'Matter of Trust', the awful platitudes of 'Always A Woman' and 'We Didnt Start The Fire' or whatever it's called.... Lord, they make my teeth grind. Phil Ramone did what he had to do, but damn i wish he hadn't.

(That said i, i also have a soft spot for 'Movin Out'. His gift with a melody was there sometimes in the 70s, but the bad stuff around those melodies make it extremely hard to enjoy them.)

[Davey the Fat Boy]

Is Piano Man objectively actually all that bad?

I can’t tell. Something about Billy Joel...maybe his voice...maybe years of conditioning...triggers a musical gag reflex that I don’t understand. Even when I’m hearing him sing something that I am pretty sure is pretty good (think the perfectly lovely “She’s Got a Way”). Even then, I’m aware that the whole thing is sulllied by it’s very Joel-ness.

So I don’t know how to approach something like Piano Man. It is kind of false to ask if we’d like the same song if Tom Waits had written it, because Waits surely would have written it better. But if you did like 70s Waits, shouldn’t something like this be at least kind of okay?

I really can’t even tell. I want to punch it. If songs had faces...I’d punch this one there. But I have no idea why it fills me with such visceral loathing. At one point I liked it.

Maybe there’s just too much mutually reinforcing social pressure to hate Joel-ishness among music fans of our vintage to be able to transcend it.

[sloopjohnc]

Is Piano Man objectively actually all that bad?

I can’t tell. Something about Billy Joel...maybe his voice...maybe years of conditioning...triggers a musical gag reflex that I don’t understand. Even when I’m hearing him sing something that I am pretty sure is pretty good (think the perfectly lovely “She’s Got a Way”). Even then, I’m aware that the whole thing is sullied by it’s very Joel-ness.

So I don’t know how to approach something like Piano Man. It is kind of false to ask if we’d like the same song if Tom Waits had written it, because Waits surely would have written it better.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. I am not a Tom Waits fan. Hate his music, but musicians seem to respect his songwriting. Waits would have never written such a shitty song - would've never entered his brain.

In fact, I think Joel is a lot more true to himself than Waits is with his whole visual and song styling schtick, playing that sub-Bukowski character he created. The whole thing rings false. Joel is an unabashed shlockmeister.

[toomanyhatz]

Is Piano Man objectively actually all that bad?

Oh, god yes.

His self-aggrandizement in the form of the humble brag is teeth-chatteringly annoying. He spends what seems like 30 verses describing every person in the room with the most cliche phrases - Davey in the navy and probably will be for life, various drunks and down-and-outers, and what does it all add up to? What's the big payoff? It's all about Billy, and what a great piano player he is and how all these people recognize that he's too good to be in this same down-and-out situation that they're in.

Add to that the number of songs in which Billy has to convince you that he's a rocker at heart, and the "it's all about me" love song masquerading as a tribute to the idealized female's wonderfulness - "I never want to work that hard" indeed... and yeah - there's a certain "Billy-ness" that can be very annoying at best. Then there's the famous temper tantrum video, his braggadocio in interviews about bedding supermodels, and...let's just say any "cuntish rock star" discussion needs to include him.

That said, he can have a way with the 'story song' and is a great McCartney imitator with solid piano chops and decent melodic skills so it'd be impossible to say he hasn't had his successes - just that he doesn't always use those skills for the forces of good.

[Bent Fabric]

I've made my peace with his very small handful of (for me) "stopped clock moments". Any person with some reasonable facility will have one or two. There are auto parts store jingles I hear on the radio that I don't switch off.

But...bigger picture, yeah..."that fucking guy". Others are saying it far better than I ever could.

[clive gash]

*Miles Davis sotto voce*

motherfucking Allentown



Springsteen would’ve stretched that out to at least a double album.

[clive gash]

Though Landau might have been slightly more thorough re. Health & Safety.

[Bent Fabric]

This fucking thread -

I have gotten "Joeled" TWICE today since commenting here. A woefully bad "This is fun, right?" Joel 60s pastiche popped up on the radio while I was in the car. Only hours later, I walked into a grocery store to the sounds of a Joel 50s pastiche. Having his ubiquity shoved in my face like this almost seemed like a very deliberate punishment for daring to suggest that "Piano Man" insists upon itself.

[clive gash]

Don’t go changing...

[sloopjohnc]

This fucking thread -

I have gotten "Joeled" TWICE today since commenting here. A woefully bad "This is fun, right?" Joel 60s pastiche popped up on the radio while I was in the car. Only hours later, I walked into a grocery store to the sounds of a Joel 50s pastiche. Having his ubiquity shoved in my face like this almost seemed like a very deliberate punishment for daring to suggest that "Piano Man" insists upon itself.

K comes after J, and that stands for "karma.