Billy Joel - Song By Song

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Matt Wilson
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Re: Billy Joel - Song By Song

Postby Matt Wilson » 18 Jun 2018, 23:46

So Billy Joel is a braggart based on the evidence presented in this thread?

Hmmm.....

You guys must all hate rap then.

I mean really hate it.

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Re: Billy Joel - Song By Song

Postby clive gash » 18 Jun 2018, 23:59

Not me. We Didn’t Start The Fire is my Rapper’s Delight.
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Re: Billy Joel - Song By Song

Postby The Modernist » 19 Jun 2018, 00:12

Matt Wilson wrote:I like this one:



Springsteen seems to agree:



It's a fantastic song. Couldn't care less about Springsteen lending it some Rolling Stone seal of approval though. That's more likely to put me off it.

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Re: Billy Joel - Song By Song

Postby toomanyhatz » 19 Jun 2018, 00:16

Matt Wilson wrote:So Billy Joel is a braggart based on the evidence presented in this thread?

Hmmm.....

You guys must all hate rap then.

I mean really hate it.


Hmm...was that the main thrust of any argument against him? Certainly not mine.
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Re: Billy Joel - Song By Song

Postby Matt Wilson » 19 Jun 2018, 01:28

toomanyhatz wrote:
Matt Wilson wrote:So Billy Joel is a braggart based on the evidence presented in this thread?

Hmmm.....

You guys must all hate rap then.

I mean really hate it.


Hmm...was that the main thrust of any argument against him? Certainly not mine.


I don't care if it's a minor thrust, it's still ridiculous. Braggadocio has been a theme of rock 'n' roll since its origin. And is totally prevalent in today's music. To hold that against one artist (and for one line, at that) and not others who are far more guilty of it seems pretty random.

And I wasn't singling you out anyway. But since you spoke up, you complain that "Piano Man" is all about Billy, well, duh! It's called "Piano Man," who is it supposed to be about?

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Re: Billy Joel - Song By Song

Postby toomanyhatz » 19 Jun 2018, 01:51

You're right, we should all love Billy unconditionally. I mean, he cares enough to tell us about Davy in the navy and all. It's the least we can do.
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Re: Billy Joel - Song By Song

Postby Matt Wilson » 19 Jun 2018, 02:00

Yeah, that was certainly the 'main thrust of my argument.'

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Re: Billy Joel - Song By Song

Postby toomanyhatz » 19 Jun 2018, 02:06

Yes, you and many rappers. You must really hate rap, since there's not enough there about pianos.

It makes just about as much sense as whatever the hell you're trying to say.
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Re: Billy Joel - Song By Song

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 20 Jun 2018, 15:04

Well...for what it’s worth - I think the argument that ‘Piano Man is bad because the narrator is full of himself’ is kind of bogus. It’s fine to dislike the song for that reason. But it doesn’t make it bad.

The argument for it being bad is that it has some lazy rhymes and it’s character sketches are barely stick figures. I would almost call it a strength that it teeters so long on the edge of mawkishness without falling in, except that it ultimately swan dives right into the muck with “they’re sharing a drink they call loneliness”.

But on the other hand...it caught on for a reason. It does kind of walk you through a scenario that is both instantly recognizable and kind of original for a rock-era song. It is also pretty effective at evoking images, time, place.
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Re: Billy Joel - Song By Song

Postby naughty boy » 20 Jun 2018, 16:59

and it's better than 'Rainy Day Women'









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Re: Billy Joel - Song By Song

Postby sloopjohnc » 20 Jun 2018, 17:10

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:Well...for what it’s worth - I think the argument that ‘Piano Man is bad because the narrator is full of himself’ is kind of bogus. It’s fine to dislike the song for that reason. But it doesn’t make it bad.

The argument for it being bad is that it has some lazy rhymes and it’s character sketches are barely stick figures. I would almost call it a strength that it teeters so long on the edge of mawkishness without falling in, except that it ultimately swan dives right into the muck with “they’re sharing a drink they call loneliness”.

But on the other hand...it caught on for a reason. It does kind of walk you through a scenario that is both instantly recognizable and kind of original for a rock-era song. It is also pretty effective at evoking images, time, place.


I never even listened to the lyrics. It's such a vanilla song with calculated chord changes, I never get that far. it's so intimately bombastic, I can't stand it.
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Re: Billy Joel - Song By Song

Postby Bent Fabric » 20 Jun 2018, 17:15

I'd love to see video of Holden Caulfield reacting to that stupid florid introduction (or preamble, or whatever the fuck we're calling it).

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Re: Billy Joel - Song By Song

Postby Goat Boy » 20 Jun 2018, 17:44

The most impressive thing he did was pull Christie Brinkley. How the frog faced troll pulled that one off must have given hope to men the world over.

I always thought he was an American thing. Like Tom Petty or locking children in cages (Joke, my American bruddas and sistas)

I listened to Piano Man for the first time on the bus home. I don't know what's worse, that teeth clenching intro, the harmonica that has the dreaded whiff of Oirishness about, the trite lyrics ("Makin' love to his tonic and gin") or the nauseating empathy for the Little Guy.

Somebody on Youtube describes him as a "legend". And maybe he is you know? I mean, Christie Brinkley, right.
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Re: Billy Joel - Song By Song

Postby naughty boy » 20 Jun 2018, 17:47

Who was it said 'just stick around long enough' when asked 'how do you become a legend?'

probably Bette Davis or someone. Anyway it's true.
Matt 'interesting' Wilson wrote:So I went from looking at the "I'm a Man" riff, to showing how the rave up was popular for awhile.

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Re: Billy Joel - Song By Song

Postby George P. Smackers » 20 Jun 2018, 18:02

Too late to say "not to belabor this" but..

It's not the bragging and being full of himself that bugs me. It's that plus the fellow-feeling he pretends to have for the losers, and the insight he thinks he has into their lives.

His smugness is a direct cause of the losers' portraits being so lame and perfunctory. I'm not much of a Tom Waits fan either, but at least he'd give us his gallery of barroom grotesques and the point would be, these people are interesting, they're fun to talk to, they say unexpected things...

Whereas with "Piano Man" we get "Now Paul is a real-estate novelist..." A dismissive type (the "now" is perfect), like we're supposed to go "oh yeah, that kind of loser, what a bore he must be!" But I'd probably rather read one of his novels than listen to Billy Joel.

Actually it would be a pretty funny song if he just bragged about how great he was compared to the poor slobs he deigns to entertain. How odd that my obvious talent doesn't depress these people even more! Ha ha ha ha.

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Re: Billy Joel - Song By Song

Postby toomanyhatz » 20 Jun 2018, 18:39

Exactly. Everything's context. Not just being full of himself, but being full of himself in the context of overwhelming Billy Joelishness. Why are those characters stick figures? Not 'cause Billy can't create an archetype - he's done it in other songs. But because ultimately, they don't matter.

Can't think of a single rap song - or at least a single good one - that combines braggadocio and weaslyness in an even remotely similar way.
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. Got Jimi's autograph after the show and went on to see him several times that year


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Re: Billy Joel - Song By Song

Postby Brickyard Jack » 24 Jul 2018, 07:47

Piano man is a really good song. It reacreates that woozy euphoria of being in a busy bar four pints to the good, just before you have the fifth pint, descend into drunkeness and throw up on the way back to your broken dreams. The "lazy" rhymes and "calculated" chord changes aredesigned to achieve this.

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Re: Billy Joel - Song By Song

Postby Brickyard Jack » 24 Jul 2018, 07:58

Meanwhile I like a bit of Billy. He does often try to show how down he is with the working class, but produces some cracking tracks.
Here are a few tracks I really like:
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The longest time
Rosalinda's eyes
Until the night
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Re: Billy Joel - Song By Song

Postby Matt Wilson » 24 Jul 2018, 15:37

What resonance does a song like “Piano Man,” which you’ve sung thousands of times, have for you?
It’s like a kid: Sometimes it pisses me off, but I always love it — I wrote the thing, you know? I do think “Piano Man” could’ve been better. There’s quirky things — people think, what a cheap rhyme: Davy in the Navy. I’m sorry: The guy’s name was Davy! There was actually Paul, in real estate, and the guy was writing a novel. I used the real peoples’ names in the song. I suppose it’s hard for some people to believe that.


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