are you just here to talk about prog?

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yes
18
53%
no
16
47%
 
Total votes: 34

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Rayge
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Re: are you just here to talk about prog?

Postby Rayge » 10 Apr 2018, 21:14

Matt Wilson wrote:
bobzilla77 wrote:People are really PISSED about other people liking the wrong things.

.


Around here? It's pretty much just Coan.


There's a few more pissed off about people not liking the right things.
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Re: are you just here to talk about prog?

Postby The Slider » 10 Apr 2018, 21:15

Hightea wrote:the big six are generally considered
Pink Floyd
Genesis
King Crimson
ELP
Yes
Jethro Tull or Gentle Giant or sometimes Rush


So they're generally considered eight.
By whom?
Do you have a source?

Yes
ELP
Genesis
Crimson
Van Der Graaf Generator

There are many bands who might lay claim to the 6th position.
Jethro Tull and PInk Floyd - both of whom might have been considered 'prog' for a very short period of their respective careers - among them. Likewise Rush, I guess.
But Caravan and Camel probably have the better credentials.
There are really only four unarguables though.
The first four mentioned above.
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Re: are you just here to talk about prog?

Postby never/ever » 10 Apr 2018, 21:58

I don't dispute that Van Der Graaf Generator is a classic prog band but I don;t know whether it it in the Big Six.
Jethro Tull, with the broader appeal and bigger discography would take 5th place. Pink Floyd, arguably more progressive than prog is in the popular sense be called a protagonist for many. I can't disagree that purists would call Floyd a trumped up sub-par blues band though.
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Re: are you just here to talk about prog?

Postby Matt Wilson » 10 Apr 2018, 22:08

Oooh, a prog diss!

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Re: are you just here to talk about prog?

Postby Quaco » 10 Apr 2018, 22:22

My logic regarding "the classic six" was that true prog -- as opposed to progressive -- has some fancy time signatures and classical pretensions, which is why I didn't include Pink Floyd but did include Jethro Tull, even though their prog period only lasted a couple albums. If JT doesn't count, then VDGG could fill in for them, even though they're not very good. I do consider Gentle Giant a major band despite not selling in the numbers of Yes, ELP, and so on. They are just so prog!!

Anyway ...
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Re: are you just here to talk about prog?

Postby The Beatles » 10 Apr 2018, 22:50

pure prog!
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Re: are you just here to talk about prog?

Postby toomanyhatz » 10 Apr 2018, 22:52

Rayge wrote:
Matt Wilson wrote:
bobzilla77 wrote:People are really PISSED about other people liking the wrong things.

.


Around here? It's pretty much just Coan.


There's a few more pissed off about people not liking the right things.


Well, we got rid of ONE of the anti-Beatle crew at least. :D

Of all the ways THAT guy pissed me off, not liking the Beatles was really far down the list. Although I did think his reasoning was a bit, shall we say...immature.
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Re: are you just here to talk about prog?

Postby Goat Boy » 10 Apr 2018, 22:55

Weston Drury, Jnr. wrote:pure prog!


3rd greatest band to walk the earth



.
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Re: are you just here to talk about prog?

Postby The Slider » 10 Apr 2018, 23:48

Quaco wrote:My logic regarding "the classic six" was that true prog -- as opposed to progressive -- has some fancy time signatures and classical pretensions, which is why I didn't include Pink Floyd but did include Jethro Tull, even though their prog period only lasted a couple albums. If JT doesn't count, then VDGG could fill in for them, even though they're not very good. I do consider Gentle Giant a major band despite not selling in the numbers of Yes, ELP, and so on. They are just so prog!!

Anyway ...


That is why there ISN'T a "classic six"
There is an undisputable four
After that you are only ever going to split hairs.

It's like with what you guys call the 'British Invasion' bands
There's The Beatles, Stones, Who, Kinks and Small Faces.
After that everyone from the Tremeloes to Herman's Hermits are clamouring for inclusion.
Animals, Hollies, Searchers?

never/ever wrote:..I don;t know whether it it in the Big Six.


My point exactly
If there *were* such a thing then there wouldn't be any debate over who they were
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Re: are you just here to talk about prog?

Postby Quaco » 10 Apr 2018, 23:51

How would you rate the indisputable four, then? That's what we were doing at the jolly-up!

I'd have to say

Genesis
Yes
King Crimson
ELP
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Re: are you just here to talk about prog?

Postby The Beatles » 10 Apr 2018, 23:57

Who decides these things? No band EVER declares themselves part of any generic group!
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Re: are you just here to talk about prog?

Postby The Slider » 10 Apr 2018, 23:57

I would place Yes above Genesis
They were better (maybe "more conventional") songwriters, more accomplished musicians (aside from Phil) and sold more records.
Even if I preferred Genesis - which I have done over the years - objectively Yes are top of the heap.

Crimson are a bit more of an acquired taste. There are very few hooks for the non believer to hang their hats upon, but they are the prog act it has always been acceptable to name drop.

ELP were massive at the time, but they are a bit shit aren't they? Even though I like the 70-77 period as much as I ever did.

So, pretty much agree with you
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Re: are you just here to talk about prog?

Postby The Slider » 10 Apr 2018, 23:58

Weston Drury, Jnr. wrote:Who decides these things? No band EVER declares themselves part of any generic group!


Except the ones who do
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Re: are you just here to talk about prog?

Postby Quaco » 11 Apr 2018, 00:01

The Slider wrote:objectively Yes are top of the heap.

I do agree. I just slightly prefer Genesis, except when I'm actually listening to Yes, at which point I prefer them!
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Re: are you just here to talk about prog?

Postby The Slider » 11 Apr 2018, 00:03

Then let it be written
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Re: are you just here to talk about prog?

Postby Quaco » 11 Apr 2018, 00:11

Weston Drury, Jnr. wrote:Who decides these things? No band EVER declares themselves part of any generic group!

Did [punk] affect your thinking at all?

“By then we were too far down our own musical road. Also, we’d already rather simplified from the likes of 'Supper’s Ready' to shorter songs. We’d made a big change, we’d moved along.”

“We’d adapted, become more straightforward, and that suited the times better,” says Banks. “It felt natural to us not to keep on doing complicated pieces and reprises and all the rest of it.”
“Being on tour such a lot,” says Collins, “we weren’t around to witness punk. We knew what was going on because we read the music papers, but didn’t feel too affected by it. I actually remember thinking, ‘Good – a lot of these bands I don’t like either will just disappear!’ I wasn’t a big fan of most of the bands who suffered anyway.”

Were you aware that you were suddenly proclaimed unfashionable?

“I think we were disliked by some, yes. But it’s like that John Cleese accountant sketch: ‘You’re perfectly boring, you’re perfectly normal, you’re perfectly suited to being an accountant.’ Cleese had an accountant’s meeting the following day, and suddenly realised this had been on television. So he went to his accountant and said: ‘Did you see the show?’ ‘Oh yes,’ said the accountant. Cleese said: ‘Ah. I’m ever so sorry about that.’ The accountant said: ‘No, not at all. You see, I’m a chartered accountant.’ To me it was like: ‘Oh, they’re not talking about us, they’re talking about those virtuoso bands.’ We write songs, we’re not in that group. Although obviously a certain element of what we did was what they were trying to get rid of.”
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Re: are you just here to talk about prog?

Postby Bent Fabric » 11 Apr 2018, 05:15

Weston Drury, Jnr. wrote:Who decides these things? No band EVER declares themselves part of any generic group!


http://www.metalinjection.net/latest-news/tom-araya-says-the-big-four-will-never-happen-again-because-of-politics-of-character-in-one-particular-band

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Re: are you just here to talk about prog?

Postby Purgatory Brite » 11 Apr 2018, 09:35

The Slider wrote:Do you have a source?


I believe the notion of the "Big 6" groups was started by Prog magazine. This based on how many copies of the magazine are sold when these bands are featured on the cover. They have found if newer bands are included on the cover, the magazine sells less.
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Re: are you just here to talk about prog?

Postby Purgatory Brite » 11 Apr 2018, 09:38

Weston Drury, Jnr. wrote:No band EVER declares themselves part of any generic group!


They do when there's money in it for them. I don't see ageing bands like the Damned, Sham 69 or UK Subs distancing themselves from punk rock.

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Re: are you just here to talk about prog?

Postby zoomboogity » 11 Apr 2018, 12:53

Quaco wrote:VDGG could fill in for them, even though they're not very good.


???
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