Andrew Lloyd Webber as prog rocker

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Andrew Lloyd Webber as prog rocker

Postby Muskrat » 12 Mar 2018, 21:46

Review of his new autobiography


So, though his music isn’t often grouped with the “prog rock” of the early seventies—the highly tutored, self-consciously arty music of Yes and early Genesis and Procol Harum and Emerson, Lake & Palmer, and so on—the spirit is very much the same: educated British musicians with classical training, inherited rock rhythm sections, minimal blues feeling, and a taste for the grandiose and bombastic. The famous “Phantom of the Opera” theme, with the organ’s quaver accompanied by funereal electric bass and foreboding percussion, is pure prog rock, almost to the point of “Spinal Tap”-style parody. What Lloyd Webber added to the mix was a feeling for pathos and melody—putting Puccini rather than Bach into the prog-rock cauldron. (These connections prove to be fairly direct: the first Jesus in “Jesus Christ Superstar” was the lead singer of Deep Purple, and a subsequent Jesus tried out for Black Sabbath, both groups slightly demented children of prog rock.)
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Re: Andrew Lloyd Webber as prog rocker

Postby Hugh » 12 Mar 2018, 22:22

Some say that the famous Phantom Of The Opera theme was ripped off from Pink Floyd's Echoes.

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Re: Andrew Lloyd Webber as prog rocker

Postby Quaco » 12 Mar 2018, 22:39

ALW is what some people think prog sounds like, so this is more of the usual. The "classical training" aspect of prog rockers is overstated and highly debatable (a handful of players, no more), and I'm not sure there's any less blues feeling than in Rubber Soul or Pet Sounds.

Prog as the idea of "seeing what else is possible now that Sgt. Pepper blew our minds" is a more accurate way to look at it.
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Re: Andrew Lloyd Webber as prog rocker

Postby Charlie O. » 13 Mar 2018, 00:26

I think it was Quaco pointed out in an earlier thread on Jesus Christ Superstar that there were plenty of "broad church" British prog rock musicians (and singers) on the original album - members or members-to-be of Soft Machine, Deep Purple, Roxy Music, etc.

I'd consider reading that book - although, I confess, JCS and Joseph are the only Lloyd Webber works I've ever heard all the way through!
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Re: Andrew Lloyd Webber as prog rocker

Postby The Slider » 13 Mar 2018, 07:46

Try Variations.
It's magnificent - and features an augmented Colloseum II backing his brother Julian on Cello.
It is Jazz Rock. Progtastic
A great record. A gem of its ilk.


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"Variations is a classical and rock fusion album. The music was composed by Andrew Lloyd Webber and performed by his younger brother, the cellist Julian Lloyd Webber.

The Lloyd Webber brothers were always very close but their two different careers (a rock musical composer and a classical cellist) meant that a collaboration seemed unlikely. It was not until Julian beat his brother in a bet on a Leyton Orient football match that Andrew was forced to write his cello work.

As his subject, Andrew chose the theme of Paganini's 24th caprice and added 23 variations for cello and rock band. The work premiered at the 1977 Sydmonton Festival with rock band Colosseum II, featuring Gary Moore, Jon Hiseman and Don Airey being joined by Barbara Thompson (sax, flute), Rod Argent (piano, synthesizer, keyboards) and Julian Lloyd Webber (cello). It was subsequently rearranged and recorded in 1978. It reached Number 2 on the UK album charts"

Julian Lloyd Webber – cello
Don Airey – grand piano, synthesizers (ARP Odyssey, Minimoog, Solina String Ensemble), Fender Rhodes electric piano
Rod Argent – grand piano, synthesizers (Minimoog, Roland RS-202, Yamaha CS-80)
Gary Moore – Gibson Les Paul, Rickenbacker electric 12 string & Fender Stratocaster electric guitars, Guild acoustic guitar
Barbara Thompson – flute, alto flute, alto & tenor saxophone
John Mole – Fender Precision Bass, Hayman fretless bass guitar
Jon Hiseman – Arbiter Auto-Tune drums, Paiste cymbals & gongs, percussion
Andrew Lloyd Webber – synthesizer
Dave Caddick – piano
Bill Le Sage – vibraphone
Herbie Flowers – bass
Phil Collins – drums, percussion


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variation ... bber_album)


http://www.garymoorefc.com/disco_session_album_webber
Last edited by The Slider on 13 Mar 2018, 07:59, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Andrew Lloyd Webber as prog rocker

Postby The Slider » 13 Mar 2018, 07:51









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Re: Andrew Lloyd Webber as prog rocker

Postby The Slider » 13 Mar 2018, 08:11

Hugh wrote:Some say that the famous Phantom Of The Opera theme was ripped off from Pink Floyd's Echoes.


:lol:
It is a descending scale



It is Puccini he ripped off in Phantom:

http://abcclassic2.tumblr.com/post/9842 ... to-puccini
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Re: Andrew Lloyd Webber as prog rocker

Postby Hugh » 13 Mar 2018, 08:25

Tell that to Roger.

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Re: Andrew Lloyd Webber as prog rocker

Postby The Slider » 13 Mar 2018, 08:29

Bloody architects
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Re: Andrew Lloyd Webber as prog rocker

Postby soundchaser » 13 Mar 2018, 09:50

Could never bear ALW myself, other than the odd song here and there And this, despite me playing Joseph in a Junior school musical :lol:. Personally, I think ALW was as un-switched on to prog, as the classically trained Sky (even if Francis Monkman of Curved Air was a member.). Roger Waters views on ALW, can be found in the lyrics to It's A Miracle, from the Amused To Death album:

"We cower in our shelters
With our hands over our ears
Lloyd-Webber's awful stuff
Runs for years and years and years
An earthquake hits the theater
But the operetta lingers
Then the piano lid comes down
And breaks his fucking fingers
It's a miracle."

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Re: Andrew Lloyd Webber as prog rocker

Postby soundchaser » 13 Mar 2018, 09:57

The Slider wrote:Try Variations.
It's magnificent - and features an augmented Colloseum II backing his brother Julian on Cello.
It is Jazz Rock. Progtastic
A great record. A gem of its ilk.


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I forgot all about this, as I never owned it. Taking a listen now, cheers.

Funnily enough, I was playing Electric Savage, by Colosseum II last week. It's okay, but not a patch on American fusion.

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Re: Andrew Lloyd Webber as prog rocker

Postby Charlie O. » 13 Mar 2018, 14:34

The Slider wrote:Try Variations.
It's magnificent - and features an augmented Colloseum II backing his brother Julian on Cello.
It is Jazz Rock. Progtastic
A great record. A gem of its ilk.

Cheers for that. We actually got it in at the store not long ago and I thought about giving it a spin but didn't. If it's still there when I get back to work I will.
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Re: Andrew Lloyd Webber as prog rocker

Postby Rayge » 13 Mar 2018, 17:01

Quaco wrote:The "classical training" aspect of prog rockers is overstated and highly debatable (a handful of players, no more), and I'm not sure there's any less blues feeling than in Rubber Soul or Pet Sounds.
Prog as the idea of "seeing what else is possible now that Sgt. Pepper blew our minds" is a more accurate way to look at it.


It wasn't how it was presented when the idea of 'progressive rock' was first floated in the UK, where the impression I got was that for 'rock' music to be considered an art, it needed to have the sort of musical weight and complexity and detailing associated with the way classical music was listened to and criticized. While it's true that heavyweight classical critics had taken to writing articles about the Bea*les' way with Shostakovian twiddly diminuendos or other such shit before the proggers put their dead hand in, and this might have been an influence on the way they were thinking, it was essentially the idea of being taken seriously and creating art for the ages by using rock elements mixed with DWEM ideas about what music was and should be that created Prog as far as I could see. That's why poor rock bands made truly dreadful records with symphony orchestras, great single writers splunged their essence creating 'operas', northern no-marks started singing about elves in very high voices and people decided there was a place for the flute in rock and roll other than firmly wedged in the sigmoid colon of some beardy twat dressed up as a mediaeval peasant.

It wasn't that prog musicians were classically trained (as were, say, Nina simone or Maurice Deebank, to name two random non-proggers) as that they aspired to the approval of people who were classically minded, and in pursuit of that, eschewed all that was great and potentially great about rock and roll in favour of initiating the worst period for recorded popular music since the 1860s.
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Re: Andrew Lloyd Webber as prog rocker

Postby soundchaser » 13 Mar 2018, 17:20

Rayge wrote:
Quaco wrote:The "classical training" aspect of prog rockers is overstated and highly debatable (a handful of players, no more), and I'm not sure there's any less blues feeling than in Rubber Soul or Pet Sounds.
Prog as the idea of "seeing what else is possible now that Sgt. Pepper blew our minds" is a more accurate way to look at it.


It wasn't how it was presented when the idea of 'progressive rock' was first floated in the UK, where the impression I got was that for 'rock' music to be considered an art, it needed to have the sort of musical weight and complexity and detailing associated with the way classical music was listened to and criticized. While it's true that heavyweight classical critics had taken to writing articles about the Bea*les' way with Shostakovian twiddly diminuendos or other such shit before the proggers put their dead hand in, and this might have been an influence on the way they were thinking, it was essentially the idea of being taken seriously and creating art for the ages by using rock elements mixed with DWEM ideas about what music was and should be that created Prog as far as I could see. That's why poor rock bands made truly dreadful records with symphony orchestras, great single writers splunged their essence creating 'operas', northern no-marks started singing about elves in very high voices and people decided there was a place for the flute in rock and roll other than firmly wedged in the sigmoid colon of some beardy twat dressed up as a mediaeval peasant.q

It wasn't that prog musicians were classically trained (as were, say, Nina simone or Maurice Deebank, to name two random non-proggers) as that they aspired to the approval of people who were classically minded, and in pursuit of that, eschewed all that was great and potentially great about rock and roll in favour of initiating the worst period for recorded popular music since the 1860s.


:lol: it was the best of times, it was the worst of tiimes.

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Re: Andrew Lloyd Webber as prog rocker

Postby The Slider » 13 Mar 2018, 17:33

I've put Variations into Kev's communal Dropbox in case anyone wants it
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Re: Andrew Lloyd Webber as prog rocker

Postby trans-chigley express » 14 Mar 2018, 07:25

I have Variations and played it last night. It's surprisingly ok ("magnificent" is over-selling it somewhat :) ). It sounds like a bunch of TV themes strung together, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

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Re: Andrew Lloyd Webber as prog rocker

Postby Hugh » 14 Mar 2018, 07:31

I liked it a lot when it was new; I saw it performed on the South Bank Show Just before it was released, I think. I last played it a couple of years ago but I got bored after about 20 mins.

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Re: Andrew Lloyd Webber as prog rocker

Postby The Slider » 14 Mar 2018, 08:19

trans-chigley express wrote:"magnificent" is over-selling it somewhat :)



I guess so
Maybe it is the fact that 39 years ago, when it came out, it meant a lot to me.
So its a fun nostalgic listen.
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Re: Andrew Lloyd Webber as prog rocker

Postby steadyeddie » 14 Mar 2018, 10:19

cool as a cucumber

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Re: Andrew Lloyd Webber as prog rocker

Postby steadyeddie » 14 Mar 2018, 10:26

Hugh wrote:Some say that the famous Phantom Of The Opera theme was ripped off from Pink Floyd's Echoes.



The Rog wrote:We cower in our shelters
With our hands over our ears
Lloyd-Webber's awful stuff
Runs for years and years and years
An earthquake hits the theater
But the operetta lingers
Then the piano lid comes down
And breaks his fucking fingers
cool as a cucumber