Which Absolute Beginners?

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Your pick

ver Jam
9
38%
The Dame
15
63%
 
Total votes: 24

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Pansy Puff
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Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby Pansy Puff » 12 Feb 2018, 21:16

My mistake. Bb is not in the scale of D.
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Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby Ranking Ted » 12 Feb 2018, 21:57

Well, this seems to have gone swimmingly.

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Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby CAN » 12 Feb 2018, 22:03

Simpletons tend to derail discussions they can’t understand
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Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby Pansy Puff » 12 Feb 2018, 22:13

OCT wrote:Simpletons tend to derail discussions they can’t understand

Must be hard being you, John, with your knowledge of overreaching chord changes, having to deal with us simpletons.

When you explain why a chord change is (or can be) overreaching, hopefully we'll be bright enough to understand.
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Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby sloopjohnc » 12 Feb 2018, 22:15

The Modernist wrote:I like The Jam single a lot. Its horn driven sound is seen as Weller getting increasingly soul influenced, but actually it was as influenced as much by contemporary singles by the likes of Teardrop Explodes and TV21


Good call out.

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Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby echolalia » 12 Feb 2018, 22:19

The Jam by a good distance for me. I find Bowie’s a bit of a slog, really. I mean it’s OK. The arrangement’s always annoyed me. It’s too obviously aiming for epicity and there is a slight whiff of mutton dressed as lamb. He sings the fuck out of it but he still doesn’t sound like an absolute beginner – Weller does.

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Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby Diamond Dog » 13 Feb 2018, 08:20

Definition of overreach
transitive verb
1 : to reach above or beyond : overtop
2 : to defeat (oneself) by seeking to do or gain too much
3 : to get the better of especially in dealing and bargaining and typically by unscrupulous or crafty methods
intransitive verb
1 of a horse : to strike the forefoot with the front part of the hind foot
2 a : to go to excess
b : exaggerate
3 : to overreach oneself


Okay - so which of those is Bowie "guilty of" here?

I'm guessing it can only apply to 2, 2a or 2b (but if I'm wrong please let me know).

So which were you referring to - and then we can have an adult debate about why you think there are 'over reaching* chord changes'?

Thank you in anticipation.

* Corrected. Thank you Nev for your due diligence.
Last edited by Diamond Dog on 13 Feb 2018, 09:12, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby Moleskin » 13 Feb 2018, 08:34

Diamond Dog wrote:Definition of overreach
transitive verb
1 : to reach above or beyond : overtop
2 : to defeat (oneself) by seeking to do or gain too much
3 : to get the better of especially in dealing and bargaining and typically by unscrupulous or crafty methods
intransitive verb
1 of a horse : to strike the forefoot with the front part of the hind foot
2 a : to go to excess
b : exaggerate
3 : to overreach oneself


Okay - so which of those is Bowie "guilty of" here?

I'm guessing it can only apply to 2, 2a or 2b (but if I'm wrong please let me know).

So which were you referring to - and then we can have an adult debate about why you think there are 'over reading chord changes'?

Thank you in anticipation.


Clearly #1 in the second group - "to strike the forefoot with the front part of the hind foot".
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Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby Pansy Puff » 13 Feb 2018, 08:34

It's why the chords sound so clangy!
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Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby Pansy Puff » 13 Feb 2018, 08:59

We've made the (stupid) assumption that the chords John posted are correct. Another interpretation is B7 -A - F# - G for the opening line.

Delightful chords that seem almost perfectly in sync with Bowie's voice and ear for melody. Coupled with the almost parody of rock n roll with the opening riff: G to A and G to D it's Bowie having fun with his own glam rock legacy.

EDIT: The reverse Porter, I changed the minor to major.
Last edited by Pansy Puff on 13 Feb 2018, 09:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby Darkness_Fish » 13 Feb 2018, 09:05

I voted Bowie, but I think the song is a bit pants, with a terrible 80s arrangement. Bowie delivers the vocal with genuine aplomb though, he imbue it with a weight it doesn't deserve.

The Jam song is a better song, but it isn't done particularly well. The brass is Teardrop Explodes-esque, but it's sub-par and tinny, and as already noted, the drumming seems a bit of a failure.


But if we're getting technical and all muso, I like the middle seven, and the chords change is a brilliant nod to Belouis Some, the way they switch from a metatonic scale to the intrinsically clad 9th is marvelous.
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Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby CAN » 13 Feb 2018, 09:40

Diamond Dog wrote:So which were you referring to - and then we can have an adult debate about why you think there are 'over reaching* chord changes'?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:











































wait - you were serious?
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Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby Diamond Dog » 13 Feb 2018, 09:40

Yes I was actually.
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Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby CAN » 13 Feb 2018, 09:44

You want an ‘adult debate’ about why I think there are overreaching chord changes in a song?

I’ll assume you really don’t, for the sake of both our sanities.
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Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby Pansy Puff » 13 Feb 2018, 09:53

OCT wrote:You want an ‘adult debate’ about why I think there are overreaching chord changes in a song?

I’ll assume you really don’t, for the sake of both our sanities.

You make a baseless claim and can't back it up. This is your Modus operandi. And rather than engage you want to attack.

You need a proper job, a life, a girlfriend or something to add a little meaning to your existence. I'm clearly overreaching, but your behaviour is symptomatic of someone with too much time on their hands.
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Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby the gorton gollum » 13 Feb 2018, 10:09

He hasn’t even heard any real soul music.

Poor John :(
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Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby Diamond Dog » 13 Feb 2018, 10:10

OCT wrote:You want an ‘adult debate’ about why I think there are overreaching chord changes in a song?

I’ll assume you really don’t, for the sake of both our sanities.


Why?

I'd like to know if you think the chord changes aim for something and don't hit it, whether they are part of the whole thing being too grandiose, whether you think they're excessive/exaggerated - and why. Genuinely.
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Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby CAN » 13 Feb 2018, 10:25

:lol:

Have a nice day, fellas!
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Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby Pansy Puff » 13 Feb 2018, 10:57

OCT wrote::lol:

Have a nice day, fellas!

Ah that's right. I'm the fucking idiot.
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Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby Wally Bingbang » 13 Feb 2018, 14:12

Let this be a warning, kids: when constructing an emotive description of something you love, be sure to use ONLY THE RIGHT WORDS lest the logic brigade jump down your fucking throat.
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