Which Absolute Beginners?

Do talk back

Your pick

ver Jam
9
38%
The Dame
15
63%
 
Total votes: 24

User avatar
echolalia
Posts: 4651
Joined: 21 Jul 2006, 02:23
Location: Way Out West

Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby echolalia » 12 Feb 2018, 22:19

The Jam by a good distance for me. I find Bowie’s a bit of a slog, really. I mean it’s OK. The arrangement’s always annoyed me. It’s too obviously aiming for epicity and there is a slight whiff of mutton dressed as lamb. He sings the fuck out of it but he still doesn’t sound like an absolute beginner – Weller does.

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 67782
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby Diamond Dog » 13 Feb 2018, 08:20

Definition of overreach
transitive verb
1 : to reach above or beyond : overtop
2 : to defeat (oneself) by seeking to do or gain too much
3 : to get the better of especially in dealing and bargaining and typically by unscrupulous or crafty methods
intransitive verb
1 of a horse : to strike the forefoot with the front part of the hind foot
2 a : to go to excess
b : exaggerate
3 : to overreach oneself


Okay - so which of those is Bowie "guilty of" here?

I'm guessing it can only apply to 2, 2a or 2b (but if I'm wrong please let me know).

So which were you referring to - and then we can have an adult debate about why you think there are 'over reaching* chord changes'?

Thank you in anticipation.

* Corrected. Thank you Nev for your due diligence.
Last edited by Diamond Dog on 13 Feb 2018, 09:12, edited 2 times in total.
"Excuse my dust."
"It put me back in my place and made me realize, yes I'm just a cunt in a clown suit."
"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here"

User avatar
Moleskin
Posts: 14590
Joined: 18 Feb 2004, 12:38
Location: We began to notice that we could be free, And we moved together to the West.

Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby Moleskin » 13 Feb 2018, 08:34

Diamond Dog wrote:Definition of overreach
transitive verb
1 : to reach above or beyond : overtop
2 : to defeat (oneself) by seeking to do or gain too much
3 : to get the better of especially in dealing and bargaining and typically by unscrupulous or crafty methods
intransitive verb
1 of a horse : to strike the forefoot with the front part of the hind foot
2 a : to go to excess
b : exaggerate
3 : to overreach oneself


Okay - so which of those is Bowie "guilty of" here?

I'm guessing it can only apply to 2, 2a or 2b (but if I'm wrong please let me know).

So which were you referring to - and then we can have an adult debate about why you think there are 'over reading chord changes'?

Thank you in anticipation.


Clearly #1 in the second group - "to strike the forefoot with the front part of the hind foot".
@hewsim
-the artist formerly known as comrade moleskin-
-the unforgettable waldo jeffers-

Jug Band Music
my own music

User avatar
Darkness_Fish
Posts: 6696
Joined: 27 Jul 2015, 09:58

Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby Darkness_Fish » 13 Feb 2018, 09:05

I voted Bowie, but I think the song is a bit pants, with a terrible 80s arrangement. Bowie delivers the vocal with genuine aplomb though, he imbue it with a weight it doesn't deserve.

The Jam song is a better song, but it isn't done particularly well. The brass is Teardrop Explodes-esque, but it's sub-par and tinny, and as already noted, the drumming seems a bit of a failure.


But if we're getting technical and all muso, I like the middle seven, and the chords change is a brilliant nod to Belouis Some, the way they switch from a metatonic scale to the intrinsically clad 9th is marvelous.
Like fast-moving clouds casting shadows against a hillside, the melody-loop shuddered with a sense of the sublime, the awful unknowable majesty of the world.

User avatar
C.
hounds people off the board
Posts: 19748
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: selling a self-detonating James Last CD to a Copenhagen thrift store

Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby C. » 13 Feb 2018, 09:40

Diamond Dog wrote:So which were you referring to - and then we can have an adult debate about why you think there are 'over reaching* chord changes'?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:











































wait - you were serious?
C wrote:I said nothing for years but enough is enough.


Lord Rother wrote:Big Big Train’s Gregory Spawton sums it up pretty well

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 67782
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby Diamond Dog » 13 Feb 2018, 09:40

Yes I was actually.
"Excuse my dust."
"It put me back in my place and made me realize, yes I'm just a cunt in a clown suit."
"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here"

User avatar
C.
hounds people off the board
Posts: 19748
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: selling a self-detonating James Last CD to a Copenhagen thrift store

Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby C. » 13 Feb 2018, 09:44

You want an ‘adult debate’ about why I think there are overreaching chord changes in a song?

I’ll assume you really don’t, for the sake of both our sanities.
C wrote:I said nothing for years but enough is enough.


Lord Rother wrote:Big Big Train’s Gregory Spawton sums it up pretty well

User avatar
clive gash
wannabee enfant terrible
Posts: 17142
Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 00:32
Location: down the rabbit hole

Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby clive gash » 13 Feb 2018, 10:09

He hasn’t even heard any real soul music.

Poor John :(
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

Diamond Dog wrote:...yet it quite clearly hit the target with you and your nonce, didn't it?


User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 67782
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby Diamond Dog » 13 Feb 2018, 10:10

OCT wrote:You want an ‘adult debate’ about why I think there are overreaching chord changes in a song?

I’ll assume you really don’t, for the sake of both our sanities.


Why?

I'd like to know if you think the chord changes aim for something and don't hit it, whether they are part of the whole thing being too grandiose, whether you think they're excessive/exaggerated - and why. Genuinely.
"Excuse my dust."
"It put me back in my place and made me realize, yes I'm just a cunt in a clown suit."
"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here"

User avatar
C.
hounds people off the board
Posts: 19748
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: selling a self-detonating James Last CD to a Copenhagen thrift store

Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby C. » 13 Feb 2018, 10:25

:lol:

Have a nice day, fellas!
C wrote:I said nothing for years but enough is enough.


Lord Rother wrote:Big Big Train’s Gregory Spawton sums it up pretty well

User avatar
harvey k-tel
Long Player
Posts: 40431
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 23:20
Location: 1220 on your AM dial

Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby harvey k-tel » 13 Feb 2018, 14:12

Let this be a warning, kids: when constructing an emotive description of something you love, be sure to use ONLY THE RIGHT WORDS lest the logic brigade jump down your fucking throat.
If you've got nothing to do, don't do it here.

User avatar
clive gash
wannabee enfant terrible
Posts: 17142
Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 00:32
Location: down the rabbit hole

Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby clive gash » 13 Feb 2018, 14:16

Are you really suggesting that someone could jump down your throat?

Stupid idiot :roll:
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

Diamond Dog wrote:...yet it quite clearly hit the target with you and your nonce, didn't it?


User avatar
C.
hounds people off the board
Posts: 19748
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: selling a self-detonating James Last CD to a Copenhagen thrift store

Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby C. » 13 Feb 2018, 14:29

Harvey K-Tel wrote:Let this be a warning, kids: when constructing an emotive description of something you love, be sure to use ONLY THE RIGHT WORDS lest the logic brigade jump down your fucking throat.


:)

They’re probably not bad at sorting post and teaching maths, to be fair
C wrote:I said nothing for years but enough is enough.


Lord Rother wrote:Big Big Train’s Gregory Spawton sums it up pretty well

User avatar
harvey k-tel
Long Player
Posts: 40431
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 23:20
Location: 1220 on your AM dial

Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby harvey k-tel » 13 Feb 2018, 14:31

nev harp wrote:Are you really suggesting that someone could jump down your throat?

Stupid idiot :roll:


Harvey K-Tel wrote:G# C Dm
Let this be a warning, kids:
C A F#
when constructing an emotive description
G# C Dm
of something you love,
C C F# A
be sure to use ONLY THE RIGHT WORDS
G# C Dm
lest the logic brigade jump
B# Am B# F
down your fucking throat.
If you've got nothing to do, don't do it here.

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 67782
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby Diamond Dog » 13 Feb 2018, 14:36

I thought you'd embarrassed yourself enough there John, but clearly not.

I asked a genuine question - if nothing else trying to understand your 'relative' antipathy towards Bowie. You know, what drives your dislike of alot of the 'hoopla' on here around him. What musically you find dislikeable about him.

But it's clear from your refusal you didn't actually post with any intention of having a debate. You were just throwing a little bomb in there. You're probably thinking I took the bait - I happen to think I've conducted myself reasonably and only asked for an explanation of your musical views.

But let's face it, you didn't really want to discuss "Absolute Beginners" at all. You just fancied a fight.

Tough. Not with with me matey.
"Excuse my dust."
"It put me back in my place and made me realize, yes I'm just a cunt in a clown suit."
"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here"

User avatar
clive gash
wannabee enfant terrible
Posts: 17142
Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 00:32
Location: down the rabbit hole

Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby clive gash » 13 Feb 2018, 14:37

I’m not overreading that.
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

Diamond Dog wrote:...yet it quite clearly hit the target with you and your nonce, didn't it?


User avatar
C.
hounds people off the board
Posts: 19748
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: selling a self-detonating James Last CD to a Copenhagen thrift store

Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby C. » 13 Feb 2018, 14:39

Diamond Dog wrote:I thought you'd embarrassed yourself enough there John, but clearly not.

I asked a genuine question - if nothing else trying to understand your 'relative' antipathy towards Bowie. You know, what drives your dislike of alot of the 'hoopla' on here around him. What musically you find dislikeable about him.

But it's clear from your refusal you didn't actually post with any intention of having a debate. You were just throwing a little bomb in there. You're probably thinking I took the bait - I happen to think I've conducted myself reasonably and only asked for an explanation of your musical views.

But let's face it, you didn't really want to discuss "Absolute Beginners" at all. You just fancied a fight.

Tough. Not with with me matey.


:lol:

Absolutely incredible. I've embarrassed myself? :lol:

Thanks for the laugh, Pete.
C wrote:I said nothing for years but enough is enough.


Lord Rother wrote:Big Big Train’s Gregory Spawton sums it up pretty well

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 67782
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby Diamond Dog » 13 Feb 2018, 14:40

Fancy answering the question then?
"Excuse my dust."
"It put me back in my place and made me realize, yes I'm just a cunt in a clown suit."
"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here"

User avatar
The Modernist
2018 BCB Cup Champ!
Posts: 13158
Joined: 13 Apr 2014, 20:42

Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby The Modernist » 13 Feb 2018, 14:43

The whole of the last few pages has been embarrassing to be honest.

User avatar
clive gash
wannabee enfant terrible
Posts: 17142
Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 00:32
Location: down the rabbit hole

Re: Which Absolute Beginners?

Postby clive gash » 13 Feb 2018, 14:44

Fuck this, I’ve got a Facebook group to curate.
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

Diamond Dog wrote:...yet it quite clearly hit the target with you and your nonce, didn't it?