Ranking Led Zeppelin Studio Albums

Do talk back
User avatar
trans-chigley express
Posts: 17723
Joined: 11 Nov 2003, 01:50
Location: Asia's WC

Re: Ranking Led Zeppelin Studio Albums

Postby trans-chigley express » 29 Jan 2018, 04:38

Quaco wrote:
Dokter Rokster wrote:I think Presence is far superior to ITTOD & Coda. Presence still has the Zep magic, ITTOD does not sound like LZ - unappealing instrumentation, weak songs & hardly any JImmy Page guitars.

I'll never be able to enjoy 'In the Evening', 'Fool in the Rain' (except the isolated Bonzo drum track), or 'All of My Love' again, but I really LOVE 'Carouselambra'. 'I'm Gonna Crawl' is also excellent. I used to hate 'Hot Dog'. Now I see the solid song there -- something that was rather lacking in the last couple Zeppelin albums, to be honest -- and I like it.


ITTOD still works for me, I like it all save for Hot Dog, but even that is too short to bother skipping. I'm not very discerning with my Zep, I largely love it all :)

User avatar
trans-chigley express
Posts: 17723
Joined: 11 Nov 2003, 01:50
Location: Asia's WC

Re: Ranking Led Zeppelin Studio Albums

Postby trans-chigley express » 29 Jan 2018, 04:41

Diamond Dog wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote:
toomanyhatz wrote:Coda


I'm in a quandary whether this is a bonafide LZ album. It always seems like an afterthought and glorified bootleg to me.

I guess it's official, but it's the only LZ album I don't have one or multiple copies of.

And I don't feel like I'm missing anything - and I have loads of other stuff - How the West Was Won, BBC recordings and a bunch of bootlegs.


It is a bona fide Zep album.

The difference with it being that the tracks weren't recorded to be included on the album they turned up on. There again, half of Physical Graffiti wasn't recorded for that album, so it shouldn't really matter....but I don;t ever include because it was released after Bonzo died. Led Zeppelin died that day John Bonham died.

I think I would rank it alongside Presence & ITTOD.


I like the expanded version better with the extra three tracks which make it stronger including the wonderful Hey Hey What Can I Do which should have been included on the original release.

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 67286
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: Ranking Led Zeppelin Studio Albums

Postby Diamond Dog » 29 Jan 2018, 07:15

trans-chigley express wrote:
Quaco wrote:
Dokter Rokster wrote:I think Presence is far superior to ITTOD & Coda. Presence still has the Zep magic, ITTOD does not sound like LZ - unappealing instrumentation, weak songs & hardly any JImmy Page guitars.

I'll never be able to enjoy 'In the Evening', 'Fool in the Rain' (except the isolated Bonzo drum track), or 'All of My Love' again, but I really LOVE 'Carouselambra'. 'I'm Gonna Crawl' is also excellent. I used to hate 'Hot Dog'. Now I see the solid song there -- something that was rather lacking in the last couple Zeppelin albums, to be honest -- and I like it.


ITTOD still works for me, I like it all save for Hot Dog, but even that is too short to bother skipping. I'm not very discerning with my Zep, I largely love it all :)


I positively loathe both Hot Dog and South Bound Suarez. If I never heard "In The Evening' again that wouldn't concern me either, and I can just about suffer "All My Love" (the unreleased full version with the extended solo though I think is wonderful). But I still love "Fool In The Rain" and "I'm Gonna Crawl" and think "Carouselambra" is their great uncelebrated epic.

Re Presence, of course "Achilles..." is a bone fide classic. And "For Your Life" and "Tea For One" are wonderful tracks too. But the other four songs I really cannot get excited about, particularly "Royal Orleans" whichis right up there as one of their worst cases of filler. When you then factor in the lack of variety in instrumentation (no acoustics and no keyboards throughout - how can ITTOD have 'unappealing instrumentation' in comparison, as suggested in this thread) I think "Presence" struggles as an album.

"Coda" is an oddity but the best tracks "We're Gonna Groove" "Poor Tom" "Walter's Walk" and "Wearing & Tearing" stand up very well to scrutiny in comparison to most of the music released on the last two albums.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.”
"Don't be seduced into thinking that which did not make a profit is without value"
"'Seize the moments as they fly, know to live and learn to die'."

User avatar
SWIMMING POOL HARRINGTON
hounds people off the board
Posts: 19530
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: selling a self-detonating James Last CD to a Copenhagen thrift store

Re: Ranking Led Zeppelin Studio Albums

Postby SWIMMING POOL HARRINGTON » 29 Jan 2018, 09:20

trans-chigley express wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote:
I'm in a quandary whether this is a bonafide LZ album. It always seems like an afterthought and glorified bootleg to me.

I guess it's official, but it's the only LZ album I don't have one or multiple copies of.

And I don't feel like I'm missing anything - and I have loads of other stuff - How the West Was Won, BBC recordings and a bunch of bootlegs.


It is a bona fide Zep album.

The difference with it being that the tracks weren't recorded to be included on the album they turned up on. There again, half of Physical Graffiti wasn't recorded for that album, so it shouldn't really matter....but I don;t ever include because it was released after Bonzo died. Led Zeppelin died that day John Bonham died.

I think I would rank it alongside Presence & ITTOD.


I like the expanded version better with the extra three tracks which make it stronger including the wonderful Hey Hey What Can I Do which should have been included on the original release.


'Travelling Riverside Blues', too!
Darkness_Fish wrote:This is a big fucking mess of absolute shit from the off.

User avatar
Quaco
F R double E
Posts: 46995
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 19:41

Re: Ranking Led Zeppelin Studio Albums

Postby Quaco » 29 Jan 2018, 15:14

Diamond Dog wrote:Re Presence, of course "Achilles..." is a bone fide classic. And "For Your Life" and "Tea For One" are wonderful tracks too. But the other four songs I really cannot get excited about, particularly "Royal Orleans" whichis right up there as one of their worst cases of filler. When you then factor in the lack of variety in instrumentation (no acoustics and no keyboards throughout - how can ITTOD have 'unappealing instrumentation' in comparison, as suggested in this thread) I think "Presence" struggles as an album.

It's definitely for when you're in a certain mood. It's like punk rock in a way, no real variation in terms of tones, but hits the spot when you want that. I just went for a run while listening to it, and it was really great. Kind of revs you up. Part of the problem I have with half of PG and Presence is that few melodies and lyrics ever reveal themselves. It's like Plant buried himself inside the music. Contrast that with the marvelous stuff on IV and HOTH where you can hear most every word, and they're damn good! Those have their best songwriting.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 67286
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: Ranking Led Zeppelin Studio Albums

Postby Diamond Dog » 29 Jan 2018, 15:21

I think you're confusing production with songwriting there.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.”
"Don't be seduced into thinking that which did not make a profit is without value"
"'Seize the moments as they fly, know to live and learn to die'."

User avatar
Quaco
F R double E
Posts: 46995
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 19:41

Re: Ranking Led Zeppelin Studio Albums

Postby Quaco » 29 Jan 2018, 15:37

Diamond Dog wrote:I think you're confusing production with songwriting there.

I don't think so...? What I mean is "TSRTS", "The Rain Song", "Stairway", "Going to California", Misty Mountain Hop", "No Quarter" ... real songs with real lyrical ideas, confident musical development. Not the "Jimmy does some riffs and I'll sing along till something comes out whether it makes sense or not, so we'll just bury the vocal and put a very fast delay on it giving it that thin wiry sound" that you get with "Custard Pie", "The Rover", "Trampled Underfoot", "The Wanton Song", "Sick Again", and most of Presence.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

User avatar
C'
Posts: 904
Joined: 31 Aug 2012, 10:17
Location: oooooooooooooooooof!

Re: Ranking Led Zeppelin Studio Albums

Postby C' » 29 Jan 2018, 15:51

I would say Nobody's fault but mine is also a Zeppelin classic.

Best track on Presence in my book.
Don't even THINK of using a left handed coordinate system

User avatar
SWIMMING POOL HARRINGTON
hounds people off the board
Posts: 19530
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: selling a self-detonating James Last CD to a Copenhagen thrift store

Re: Ranking Led Zeppelin Studio Albums

Postby SWIMMING POOL HARRINGTON » 29 Jan 2018, 15:57

Quaco wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:I think you're confusing production with songwriting there.

I don't think so...? What I mean is "TSRTS", "The Rain Song", "Stairway", "Going to California", Misty Mountain Hop", "No Quarter" ... real songs with real lyrical ideas, confident musical development. Not the "Jimmy does some riffs and I'll sing along till something comes out whether it makes sense or not, so we'll just bury the vocal and put a very fast delay on it giving it that thin wiry sound" that you get with "Custard Pie", "The Rover", "Trampled Underfoot", "The Wanton Song", "Sick Again", and most of Presence.


YES - what I’ve always thought about those albums/songs.

Nice to see IV getting its due here. I thought it was undergoing some kind of snotty revision.
Darkness_Fish wrote:This is a big fucking mess of absolute shit from the off.

User avatar
Quaco
F R double E
Posts: 46995
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 19:41

Re: Ranking Led Zeppelin Studio Albums

Postby Quaco » 29 Jan 2018, 16:03

Dokter Rokster wrote:I would say Nobody's fault but mine is also a Zeppelin classic.

Best track on Presence in my book.

That's a perfect example of something only they could pull off. There's not much to it objectively, but it really works on the basis of their playing, the sounds, and the crazy structure.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

User avatar
Quaco
F R double E
Posts: 46995
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 19:41

Re: Ranking Led Zeppelin Studio Albums

Postby Quaco » 29 Jan 2018, 16:07

OCT wrote:
Quaco wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:I think you're confusing production with songwriting there.

I don't think so...? What I mean is "TSRTS", "The Rain Song", "Stairway", "Going to California", Misty Mountain Hop", "No Quarter" ... real songs with real lyrical ideas, confident musical development. Not the "Jimmy does some riffs and I'll sing along till something comes out whether it makes sense or not, so we'll just bury the vocal and put a very fast delay on it giving it that thin wiry sound" that you get with "Custard Pie", "The Rover", "Trampled Underfoot", "The Wanton Song", "Sick Again", and most of Presence.


YES - what I’ve always thought about those albums/songs.

Nice to see IV getting its due here. I thought it was undergoing some kind of snotty revision.

That;s definitely how these things go. I didn't rate IV that highly a couple years ago, it being so overplayed. But then I listened to it in a different light a couple times, and I saw again what was so good about it. This time it will stick.

I have this feeling that once a song or album becomes great, once you can see what's great about it, it won't really diminish. It's a long road getting everything up to that level where you love everything.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

User avatar
pcqgod
Posts: 17354
Joined: 11 Apr 2010, 07:23
Location: Texas

Re: Ranking Led Zeppelin Studio Albums

Postby pcqgod » 29 Jan 2018, 16:10

III
Runes
PG
I
Houses
Presence
II
ITTOD
Coda
Where would rock 'n' roll be without feedback?

User avatar
SWIMMING POOL HARRINGTON
hounds people off the board
Posts: 19530
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: selling a self-detonating James Last CD to a Copenhagen thrift store

Re: Ranking Led Zeppelin Studio Albums

Postby SWIMMING POOL HARRINGTON » 29 Jan 2018, 17:27

Quaco wrote:
OCT wrote:
Quaco wrote:I don't think so...? What I mean is "TSRTS", "The Rain Song", "Stairway", "Going to California", Misty Mountain Hop", "No Quarter" ... real songs with real lyrical ideas, confident musical development. Not the "Jimmy does some riffs and I'll sing along till something comes out whether it makes sense or not, so we'll just bury the vocal and put a very fast delay on it giving it that thin wiry sound" that you get with "Custard Pie", "The Rover", "Trampled Underfoot", "The Wanton Song", "Sick Again", and most of Presence.


YES - what I’ve always thought about those albums/songs.

Nice to see IV getting its due here. I thought it was undergoing some kind of snotty revision.

That;s definitely how these things go. I didn't rate IV that highly a couple years ago, it being so overplayed. But then I listened to it in a different light a couple times, and I saw again what was so good about it. This time it will stick.

I have this feeling that once a song or album becomes great, once you can see what's great about it, it won't really diminish. It's a long road getting everything up to that level where you love everything.


- which means digging the less-obvious songs, the ones you don't hear on the radio. That even applies in the case of IV.

There's a phrase I've seen used a few times lately - 'strong flavour'. You know, Zappa is a 'strong flavour', The Fall are a 'strong flavour', Suicide are a 'strong flavour'. It's handy. The opening track on IV is LZ dishing up their strongest flavour. "HEY HEY MAMA SAID THE WAY YOU MOVE". It's one fuck of a start and for years I hated it! Plant sounds like a wanker, right? It's something a young Smiths' fan would run a mile from. It's uncompromising.

I'm never going to love 'Black Dog' but it's as bold a musical move as anyone could make. And I admire the way the musicianship is used to serve the song - there's no showing off, really, no soloing. They're all playing together. It's something very very few bands could manage - the drums especially are phenomenal. I don't even know what the fuck's going on.
Darkness_Fish wrote:This is a big fucking mess of absolute shit from the off.

User avatar
Quaco
F R double E
Posts: 46995
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 19:41

Re: Ranking Led Zeppelin Studio Albums

Postby Quaco » 29 Jan 2018, 17:39

Yes, same for "Nobody's Fault But Mine"!

One of the best things on IV for me is "Four Sticks". Not just because it's not overplayed, though that certainly helps. It's just really insistent but strange. It's an odd sound that they just keep going with, and then they build on it with the synthesizers and guitars. It's not something odd that they then come back from, they stick with this groove and sound the whole way. When it's done, you've really experienced something different. Then into "Going to California" which is Plant's probably best lyric. ("Misty Mountain Hop" is also surprisingly coherent, and even funny.) Then "When the Levee Breaks", which most agree is a headfuck of a song. It's a great album side.

The Wall is a strong flavor as well!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 67286
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: Ranking Led Zeppelin Studio Albums

Postby Diamond Dog » 29 Jan 2018, 17:51

OCT wrote:And I admire the way the musicianship is used to serve the song - there's no showing off, really, no soloing. They're all playing together. It's something very very few bands could manage - the drums especially are phenomenal. I don't even know what the fuck's going on.


All of that. But, oddly enough, that solo at end end is many peoples favourite Jimmy solo!

Quaco wrote:Yes, same for "Nobody's Fault But Mine"!

One of the best things on IV for me is "Four Sticks". Not just because it's not overplayed, though that certainly helps. It's just really insistent but strange. It's an odd sound that they just keep going with, and then they build on it with the synthesizers and guitars. It's not something odd that they then come back from, they stick with this groove and sound the whole way. When it's done, you've really experienced something different. Then into "Going to California" which is Plant's probably best lyric. ("Misty Mountain Hop" is also surprisingly coherent, and even funny.) Then "When the Levee Breaks", which most agree is a headfuck of a song. It's a great album side.


It took me about fifteen years to really get "Four Sticks" but it's one of the best tracks on the album for me now. The synths make it - they just add a really incongruent sound to the piece.

And Levee (see what I did there?) is their tour-de-force. An absolute clusterfuck of unprecedented magnitude.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.”
"Don't be seduced into thinking that which did not make a profit is without value"
"'Seize the moments as they fly, know to live and learn to die'."

User avatar
SWIMMING POOL HARRINGTON
hounds people off the board
Posts: 19530
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: selling a self-detonating James Last CD to a Copenhagen thrift store

Re: Ranking Led Zeppelin Studio Albums

Postby SWIMMING POOL HARRINGTON » 29 Jan 2018, 17:55

I was going to mention ‘Four Sticks’ too. I love that one.
Darkness_Fish wrote:This is a big fucking mess of absolute shit from the off.

User avatar
di Maio
Posts: 5531
Joined: 16 Feb 2006, 18:57
Location: Down in Dixieland loudly playing a silver fiddle, minding the Man

Re: Ranking Led Zeppelin Studio Albums

Postby di Maio » 29 Jan 2018, 18:04

IV
I
III
Physical Graffiti
Houses of the Holy
II
Presence
Coda
In through the Out Door

User avatar
Quaco
F R double E
Posts: 46995
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 19:41

Re: Ranking Led Zeppelin Studio Albums

Postby Quaco » 29 Jan 2018, 18:07

Quaco wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:I think you're confusing production with songwriting there.

I don't think so...? What I mean is "TSRTS", "The Rain Song", "Stairway", "Going to California", Misty Mountain Hop", "No Quarter" ... real songs with real lyrical ideas, confident musical development. Not the "Jimmy does some riffs and I'll sing along till something comes out whether it makes sense or not, so we'll just bury the vocal and put a very fast delay on it giving it that thin wiry sound" that you get with "Custard Pie", "The Rover", "Trampled Underfoot", "The Wanton Song", "Sick Again", and most of Presence.

Pete, were you saying that these latter songs are still just as great songs as the ones on IV, but just have murky production? (Rather than what I thought you were saying, that "The Rain Song" et al. aren't any better but are just produced better. Slight difference.) I mean, maybe I need to get the lyrics of some of these songs and really study them so that they will reveal themselves. I tend to think of them as undercooked or maybe a new way of working. A lot of musicians do this once they've hit on how to write great songs, which I think LZ proved definitively with the one-two punch opening HOTH. Once they've cracked it, musicians try something different: try writing the songs in the studio (Queen), or start with an instrumental track and add the lyrics later (ELO, Roxy Music), etc. Anything but sitting at home with a guitar and writing a song the old fashioned way.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

User avatar
sloopjohnc
Posts: 63781
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 20:12

Re: Ranking Led Zeppelin Studio Albums

Postby sloopjohnc » 29 Jan 2018, 18:41

Diamond Dog wrote:Led Zeppelin died that day John Bonham died.

I think I would rank it alongside Presence & ITTOD.


Maybe I'll take another crack at it, but I think I feel like you do about it being a post-Bonham release.
Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk!

User avatar
Sneelock
Posts: 12314
Joined: 19 Nov 2011, 23:56
Location: Lincoln Head City

Re: Ranking Led Zeppelin Studio Albums

Postby Sneelock » 29 Jan 2018, 18:50

but he's all over it! I'd put IT over "Out Door" - Presence over that, PG then Houses then 1, then two then throw up the coin between 3 & 4 at the top.

in case anybody's keeping tabs:
oh, three or four!
2
1
Houses
PG
Presence
Coda
ITTOD
Last edited by Sneelock on 29 Jan 2018, 19:15, edited 2 times in total.
Give me a C, a bouncy C!