RIP Mark E Smith

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harvey k-tel
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Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby harvey k-tel » 25 Jan 2018, 16:20

Yeah, a friend of mine posted this on Facebook, surely it can't be true:

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Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby C. » 25 Jan 2018, 16:24

That last one’s definitely true. But he was prone to self-mythologising
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Lord Rother wrote:Big Big Train’s Gregory Spawton sums it up pretty well

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Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby Pool Hall Richard » 25 Jan 2018, 17:05

northernsky wrote:
Pool Hall Richard wrote: Love this track though. My favourite.



Oh, me too! But I always think that’s ’cause I’m not, frankly, a hard-bitten fan. But my introduction to the Fall was a schoolfriend giving me a C90 with Extricate and The Infotainment Scan on respective sides in the balmy summer of ’97, and ”Bill is Dead” was one of my go-to songs for waking up on someone’s floor, in someone’s tent, or in someone’s hedge.


I have a long Fall playlist, a real mix of it all from Witch Trials to Middle Class Revolt. All good. I love the raw and the melodic. For every Kicker Conspiracy or Futures and Pasts you get Time Enough At Last and Edinburgh Man. The latter is just as beautiful as Bill is Dead.


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Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby Tactful Cactus » 25 Jan 2018, 20:45

Nuts wrote:Great piece by Stewart Lee
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/ ... nwall-1984


Nice thanks for posting that

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The Modernist
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Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby The Modernist » 25 Jan 2018, 21:51

OCT wrote:That last one’s definitely true. But he was prone to self-mythologising



The one about the teddy bear? How do you know?

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Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby C. » 25 Jan 2018, 21:58

It was corroborated by Brix in her book. And there are scans of one or two postcards in one of the MES/Fall biogs. I'll try and find it.
C wrote:I said nothing for years but enough is enough.


Lord Rother wrote:Big Big Train’s Gregory Spawton sums it up pretty well

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Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby The Write Profile » 25 Jan 2018, 22:12

Very Stable Baron wrote:I think The Fall are probably as great as any British band from after the punk explosion. With that said, a little goes a long way with me and I only actually listen to them once or twice a year. Like most things, I finally got to hear them in the 90s. I wish I had heard them earlier, I can see how they would be absolutely formative. Respect to MES. Condolences to JC.


I'm much the same as Baron, although my age means I didn't get into them until the early 2000s. It recently struck me that I probably own more albums by the Fall than any other artist in my record collection, but I've barely scratched the surface. The Peel Sessions were a revelatory experience for me: a band surprisingly tight yet able to peel off massive shards of sound, with Mark E Smith's ability to turn non-sequiturs into something meaningful, funny, intense and whatever else you could imagine. I wish I could have seen them live. RIP Mark E Smith. A true original. Condolences to JC too.

As an aside,here's an interesting article about the Falls first-ever tour of New Zealand, back in 1982.
It's before my time but I've been told, he never came back from Karangahape Road.

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The Modernist
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Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby The Modernist » 25 Jan 2018, 22:15

OCT wrote:It was corroborated by Brix in her book. And there are scans of one or two postcards in one of the MES/Fall biogs. I'll try and find it.


I believe you!
It reminded me a bit of the Bowie story that was going the rounds after he died about him him comforting an autistic lad with this mask story. They seemed a bit urban-myth to me -nice to hear it's true!

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Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby bobzilla77 » 25 Jan 2018, 23:08

Mike Watt posted quite a bit about his Fall-love yesterday on Twitter - and most of it was about that album. I've always liked that fella but he went up even further in my estimation :)


They were/ are beloved in LA. Jack Brewer of Saccharine Trust was a huge fan, it's one of the only punk-era bands that weren't his neighbors, that I've heard him talk about as an influence. Chris D from the Flesh Eaters just published a nice memorial on FB yesterday too.
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Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby C. » 26 Jan 2018, 01:14

They influenced every alt-rock band of the last 40 years, really.
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Lord Rother wrote:Big Big Train’s Gregory Spawton sums it up pretty well

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Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby echolalia » 26 Jan 2018, 01:49

I was out tonight with my mate who knew Smith well. They were friends from pre-Fall times, and later he worked with the group. He was reminiscing fondly and re-telling my favourite MES story, which is the time they went camping in the Lake District. I would tell the tale but you'd never go camping again!

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Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby Snarfyguy » 26 Jan 2018, 03:26

echolalia wrote:I would tell the tale but you'd never go camping again!

I never will anyway!
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Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby Tom Waits For No One » 26 Jan 2018, 09:10

echolalia wrote:I was out tonight with my mate who knew Smith well. They were friends from pre-Fall times, and later he worked with the group. He was reminiscing fondly and re-telling my favourite MES story, which is the time they went camping in the Lake District. I would tell the tale but you'd never go camping again!


Tell the tale. Go on.
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Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby C. » 26 Jan 2018, 09:53

Yeah, please tell!
C wrote:I said nothing for years but enough is enough.


Lord Rother wrote:Big Big Train’s Gregory Spawton sums it up pretty well

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Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby Fonz » 26 Jan 2018, 10:20

Can't claim to be a fan, but genuinely intrigued by the things people are writing.
'Contrarian' is a word that comes up a lot. Which makes me wonder if I should explore more.

http://thequietus.com/articles/23928-ma ... tuary-obit
Heyyyy!

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Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby C. » 26 Jan 2018, 10:44

There are certain lines you read again and again about MES and The Fall, recycled mostly by unimaginative journos.

He was only 'contrarian' in that he was genuinely different to all other singers/artists. He was absolutely 'uncompromising', in that he always did exactly what he wanted to do. He could be 'curmudgeonly', but he was often charming (I met him twice and the first time he was certainly that). He was probably 'bloody-minded' and he definitely drank too much. 'Wizened'? sometimes. 'working class'? I think so.

And then there's 'me and yer granny on bongos', 'always different, always the same', 'hiring and firing tyrant', etc. etc. ad nauseam. And when the hacks aren't dribbling out those cliches to fill their columns, they're writing shitloads of pretentious gibberish - which don't really reflect what the band or what the man was about at all.

However I think he needed the approbation of The Guardian (cover/feature in today's G2 supplement), and earlier the NME, because, simply put, it meant money in the bank and a touch of respectability. But just dig those tunes!

C wrote:I said nothing for years but enough is enough.


Lord Rother wrote:Big Big Train’s Gregory Spawton sums it up pretty well

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Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby Goat Boy » 26 Jan 2018, 11:39

I think he was contrary but often in a joking way designed to wind people up so it was so superficial. In interviews there were times when you weren’t quite sure whether what he was saying was MES TRUE THOUGHTS, ken?

That doesn’t necessarily mean he was a contrarian but maybe I’m making a false distinction there.

What were they about then? What was he about?
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Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby clive gash » 26 Jan 2018, 11:49

I liked those notes to his mate when he was a shipping clerk, full of fun with words, in-jokes and itchy insolence. He was a fully formed oddity before the Fall.
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Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby Deebank » 26 Jan 2018, 11:59

There was a time in the late '80s when the NME was ultra PC (the SWP influence no doubt) and MES would talk admiringly about people like Bernard Manning and outrage would ensue.

In general he would slag off the kind of Rough Trade lefty causes and people he might have been expected to like and express admiration for stuff that was otherwise deeply uncool - like the Falklands War.

In that respect he was a contrarian. And I think they were sincere, if perhaps exaggerated for effect.

His background was also not what people expected - he had a nice normal house in suburban Prestwich. His grandfather (and then dad) ran a plumbing business and he went to grammar school That's not to say he was some middle class fake, but he was proud that his family were a cut above - if only a bit above :)
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Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby Jeff K » 26 Jan 2018, 22:17

the science eel experiment wrote:Jesus Christ can't save BCB, i believe i can.