RIP Mark E Smith

Do talk back
User avatar
Deebank
Resonator
Posts: 22947
Joined: 10 Oct 2003, 13:47
Location: In a beautiful place out in the country

Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby Deebank » 26 Jan 2018, 11:59

There was a time in the late '80s when the NME was ultra PC (the SWP influence no doubt) and MES would talk admiringly about people like Bernard Manning and outrage would ensue.

In general he would slag off the kind of Rough Trade lefty causes and people he might have been expected to like and express admiration for stuff that was otherwise deeply uncool - like the Falklands War.

In that respect he was a contrarian. And I think they were sincere, if perhaps exaggerated for effect.

His background was also not what people expected - he had a nice normal house in suburban Prestwich. His grandfather (and then dad) ran a plumbing business and he went to grammar school That's not to say he was some middle class fake, but he was proud that his family were a cut above - if only a bit above :)
I've been talking about writing a book - 25 years of TEFL - for a few years now. I've got it in me.

Paid anghofio fod dy galon yn y chwyldro

User avatar
Jeff K
The Original K
Posts: 32690
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 23:08
Location: Pennsylvania USA
Contact:

Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby Jeff K » 26 Jan 2018, 22:17

the science eel experiment wrote:Jesus Christ can't save BCB, i believe i can.

User avatar
Toby
Arsehole all Erect
Posts: 23106
Joined: 28 Jul 2003, 23:13
Contact:

Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby Toby » 29 Jan 2018, 11:53

I've read a lot of eloquent prose on MES since he died. And I'll be honest and say that, like I guess with all artists when they die, you only miss them when they're gone.

I think what I liked most was someone saying that he relentlessly avoided anyone being able to categorise what they were at any one moment. I like that aesthetic, even if I didn't really buy into the actual form it took. There was no "Classic Fall" for example.

User avatar
PENK
Midnight to Six Man
Posts: 34465
Joined: 07 Aug 2004, 20:12
Location: Stockholm

Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby PENK » 29 Jan 2018, 12:35

http://www.wsc.co.uk/features/14033-from-the-archive-mark-e-smith-interview-so-you-call-yourself-a-football-fan

I applied for a clerical job at the Edwards family’s meat factory after I left school. It was £9 a week. It might even have been Martin Edwards who did the interview. He said “Well the meat wagons come in, just sit there, fill in these forms and file them.” I said, “When would the job start?” and he said “You’ve started” and he left me in the office.
How long did you keep the job?
An hour. I was there all by myself. He’d locked the door. When he came back, I left...

...And you get big pints of beer at German matches for, like, 25p, and a nice clean sausage...

...And they turned up in replica Liverpool kits with “The Icicle Works” on the front and they’ve got this mock European Cup with them. It was 20 minutes each way and we went 5-4 in front in injury time and their tour manager’s the referee, so it went on and on until they won 6-5. It’d gone dark by the time we finished and in the bar they’re telling all the music journos they’ve won and passing the European Cup around...
Copehead wrote:I have met Gruff Rhys - although he claimed he wasn't and that he couldn't speak Welsh, as I spoke to him in Welsh, but it was him lying bastard.

User avatar
Goat Boy
Bogarting the joint
Posts: 32155
Joined: 20 Mar 2007, 12:11
Location: In the perfumed garden

Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby Goat Boy » 29 Jan 2018, 13:19

There's a clip on youtube where some fella from the Inspiral Carpets is talking about doing TOTP with MES.

It's worth listening to.
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

User avatar
THE BACONED CLOWN OF TOSS
hounds people off the board
Posts: 17625
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: pursued by the enraged queen

Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby THE BACONED CLOWN OF TOSS » 29 Jan 2018, 14:36

I've read some really sweet tributes over the last couple of days. More than you'd expect are testament to how helpful and friendly the man was - especially to fans, friends, and struggling musicians. Much of what I've read brought a tear to my eye - especially what his old manager and g/f Kay Carroll and his old pal and The Comic Strip Presents... star Alan Pillay wrote.

Something quite telling happens here about 2:45:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv7dP0ADrNE&t=297s

He was like that with me when I met him :)

Yeah, he was a cunt at times, and a lot of that was to do with the booze, but also it was a response to the journos who asked him daft questions. In that respect - as well as many others - he was like Lou Reed. And the fact he was a 'true artist' (not sure I buy into this idea 100%, but, whatever...I can forgive him a lot for the fabulous music he was responsible for).
mission wrote:the self-satisfied smug cunts like that moron Copehead

User avatar
THE BACONED CLOWN OF TOSS
hounds people off the board
Posts: 17625
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: pursued by the enraged queen

Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby THE BACONED CLOWN OF TOSS » 30 Jan 2018, 12:51

mission wrote:the self-satisfied smug cunts like that moron Copehead

User avatar
the gorton gollum
cultural defective
Posts: 16601
Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 00:32
Location: lording it

Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby the gorton gollum » 30 Jan 2018, 13:20

^^^

Plenty of inky memories there, the Hoskyns piece is ace.

Would read again.
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

Diamond Dogshit (56) wrote:I'm guessing maybe one of the admins took offence to the clear and deliberate attempt to bait me into a response


User avatar
Goat Boy
Bogarting the joint
Posts: 32155
Joined: 20 Mar 2007, 12:11
Location: In the perfumed garden

Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby Goat Boy » 30 Jan 2018, 13:22

I'm pretty sure the lasses brother told me a story once about being so pissed off at a Fall performance he drunkenly went back stage to confront him but when he saw MES he thought better of it and chickened out
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

User avatar
THE BACONED CLOWN OF TOSS
hounds people off the board
Posts: 17625
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: pursued by the enraged queen

Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby THE BACONED CLOWN OF TOSS » 30 Jan 2018, 13:54

50 Shades Of Blue wrote:I had drinks with him in Edinburgh a few times when he lived in here. Funny and clever if delusional guy. Nothing was ever Mark's fault :)


Any stories?
mission wrote:the self-satisfied smug cunts like that moron Copehead

User avatar
Goat Boy
Bogarting the joint
Posts: 32155
Joined: 20 Mar 2007, 12:11
Location: In the perfumed garden

Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby Goat Boy » 30 Jan 2018, 14:16

I've heard his local was the Central bar.
Griff wrote:The notion that Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong vocal proponent of antisemitism, would stand in front of an antisemitic mural and commend it is utterly preposterous.


Copehead wrote:we have lost touch with anything normal

User avatar
THE BACONED CLOWN OF TOSS
hounds people off the board
Posts: 17625
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: pursued by the enraged queen

Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby THE BACONED CLOWN OF TOSS » 06 Feb 2018, 19:15

mission wrote:the self-satisfied smug cunts like that moron Copehead

User avatar
THE BACONED CLOWN OF TOSS
hounds people off the board
Posts: 17625
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: pursued by the enraged queen

Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby THE BACONED CLOWN OF TOSS » 06 Feb 2018, 19:17

mission wrote:the self-satisfied smug cunts like that moron Copehead

User avatar
Snarfyguy
Dominated by the Obscure
Posts: 52749
Joined: 21 Jul 2003, 19:04
Location: New York

Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby Snarfyguy » 06 Feb 2018, 20:11

OCT wrote:http://thefall.org/news/fallnews.html

Thanks!

Currently enjoying a retrospective of live material on WFMU at http://www.wfmu.org/playlists/shows/77281
Jimbo wrote:Look, all I know is pretty much what I get from Robert Parry over at Consortium News.

User avatar
THE BACONED CLOWN OF TOSS
hounds people off the board
Posts: 17625
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: pursued by the enraged queen

Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby THE BACONED CLOWN OF TOSS » 07 Feb 2018, 10:43

There are MASSES of tributes and recollections up now - some from really unlikely sources, and many of them are touching and funny.

I was on a train yesterday and 'Groundsboy' (off the last LP) popped up on my iPod and I wept. It was strange and unexpected. I had to pull myself together quickly as the guard came to check tickets!


I'm going to post just one memory that's just been posted (from David Kleiler - no, me neither) which made me smile:

Mark E. Smith...nooo...

This makes me - to quote my favorite Fall song "Wings" - "hit a time lock"...a fond music video memory I'm going to indulge...
Back in 1994, Smith had taken money from Matador Records to make a video for the song "15 Ways." He sent them back unusable, unedited footage where he appeared as a "man on the street" reporter. It didn't constitute a music video. Matador needed a video with performance to get on MTV, but they didn't want to piss Smith off or force him to do anything. Apparently, for his last music video shoot, he only agreed to be on set for 45 minutes.

So, Mott Hupfel and I were sent to Manchester to remake the video and placate Smith. We met with him in this insane, ornate Victorian drinking club. He was late and after more than a few drinks, relished in recounting the story of getting arrested in JFK after smoking on a transcontinental flight. As he told the story, WE became the American cops he was yelling at IN the story. He glared at me, and kept saying "Do you know the MEANING of the word POLICE?!?" It was a conversation that devolved into Fall lyrics.
Eventually we explained that while keeping his TV reporter motif, we were going to do more of a "real" video, but we could break the shoot up over the course of a couple of days, he wouldn't have to be there when we shot the band and he wouldn't have to worry about lip synching because he could read the lyrics off of a "script" as old time news anchors did. I over-planned the shoot with multiple locations knowing that if Smith only showed up for half of them, we would still have a video.

It all sounded good to him. After assuring us HE wouldn't be a problem - his pesky bandmates were the unreliable ones - he was fairly cooperative. A couple of days later we did some low-impact shooting just with him around Manchester, kind of lip-synching and roaming about. The whole time pinching myself, "I can't believe I'm shooting a video for The Fall and it's going so well." Then, on the next day of the real studio shoot he was five hours late only to be found naked/passed out in his apartment. He insisted that we include his buddy's girlfriend in the video. At one point, when we were outside again, he spat at the camera, HATING that we were shooting on streets near where he had bad associations...I think he ultimately abandoned us at that location, but we already had a video in the can...

That said, we had a good time. He was funny and smart as shit. He spoke like his writing/singing: urgent, emphatic and cutting. He knew how to press buttons and had an evil ability to assess people. I was starstruck throughout. I always thought of The Fall as Brecht meets rock...and a whole bunch of other things...A total fucking genius...whew...

R.I.P.



Mark E Smith is getting buried today, by the way.
mission wrote:the self-satisfied smug cunts like that moron Copehead

User avatar
THE BACONED CLOWN OF TOSS
hounds people off the board
Posts: 17625
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: pursued by the enraged queen

Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby THE BACONED CLOWN OF TOSS » 12 Feb 2018, 19:14

We would like to thank family, friends and fans for all their kind words, condolences and memories about our brother Mark.

Also, the N.H.S and staff who treated Mark throughout and Mark’s partner Pam who loved, cared and cherished our brother.

Mark fought a long and hard battle after his diagnosis of terminal lung and kidney cancer. He took every treatment going, which could be brutal at times and left Mark with some horrible side effects. Mark was such a strong man and hated letting his fans down and tried to carry on regardless against all advice.

Mark had a great life and loved and lived it to the full and always by his own rules and we, as his sisters were privileged to be part of it too.

Mark is at peace now and pain free, but we, his three sisters have been left heartbroken and will miss our big brother very much.

Barbara, Suzanne and Caroline.
mission wrote:the self-satisfied smug cunts like that moron Copehead

User avatar
THE BACONED CLOWN OF TOSS
hounds people off the board
Posts: 17625
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
Location: pursued by the enraged queen

Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby THE BACONED CLOWN OF TOSS » 26 Feb 2018, 19:32

So pleased he made the cover of one of the monthlies:

Image
mission wrote:the self-satisfied smug cunts like that moron Copehead

User avatar
Pool Hall Richard
Posts: 3651
Joined: 14 Aug 2007, 14:54

Re: RIP Mark E Smith

Postby Pool Hall Richard » 26 Feb 2018, 23:18

Super-Jank wrote:So pleased he made the cover of one of the monthlies:

Image


Splendid 8-)