Reading music

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Can you read music?

I'm a musician and I can read music
4
15%
I'm a musician and I can't read music
11
42%
I'm not a musician, but can read music
4
15%
I'm not a musician and can't read music.
7
27%
 
Total votes: 26

sloopjohnc
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Re: Reading music

Postby sloopjohnc » 22 Nov 2017, 16:46

Diamond Dog wrote:The thought of those that can't read music (and there are many , Macca being the prime suspect as you say) is that it can actually inhibit you, and channel you into 'traditional' ways of playing/composing. It has merit too. I remember many a conversation on here (back in the days when we used to actually discuss music) where it was pointed out that a musician who reads would never have written x in the way they did. And much agreement was given by many to that point of view.


I think basic music theory doesn't matter if you can read music or just guitar tabs. Certain keys and chord go with each other regardless.

Even if you know these you can deviate.

It's like knowing a color wheel.
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Diamond Dog
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Re: Reading music

Postby Diamond Dog » 22 Nov 2017, 16:48

Bent Fabric wrote:
I wouldn't dare to employ a string quartet without having someone else write them notated instruction,



Which is of course exactly what McCartney did... there's that lovely Youtube clip of where he stands in front of them and (rather shamefacedly) says "I don;t know what all this means (looking at the score) but I can tell you exactly how it should sound.." (I paraphrase, obviously). I liked him a little bit more when I first saw that.
Last edited by Diamond Dog on 22 Nov 2017, 17:43, edited 1 time in total.
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sloopjohnc
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Re: Reading music

Postby sloopjohnc » 22 Nov 2017, 16:51

The Modernist wrote:Too many clefs spoil the broth.


I felt that all the way out here in California.
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Jimbly
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Re: Reading music

Postby Jimbly » 22 Nov 2017, 17:30

Moleskin wrote:iirc, the key is indicated by the centre of the swirl on the treble clef - it sits on the note of the key. Which I think in this instance is G.


the key is indicated by showing sharps or flats beside the clef. you have to have memorized which key corresponds to which sharps and flsts.
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The Modernist
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Re: Reading music

Postby The Modernist » 22 Nov 2017, 17:35

Diamond Dog wrote:
The Modernist wrote:
I wouldn't dare to employ a string quartet without having someone else write them notated instruction,



Which is of course exactly what McCartney did... there's that lovely Youtube clip of where he stands in front of them and (rather shamefacedly) says "I don;t know what all this means (looking at the score) but I can tell you exactly how it should sound.." (I paraphrase, obviously). I liked him a little bit more when I first saw that.


I definitely didn't say that. If I employed a string quartet I'd have to get them to do something else, like do my guttering or something!

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Jimbly
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Re: Reading music

Postby Jimbly » 22 Nov 2017, 17:35

I played clarinet from p5 till the end of third year. I also did theory of music at the same time. I played in school orchestras and also regional bands. I even have some certificates. I could only really play from reading music.

I can still play a bit but wouldn't regard myself as a musician.

My brother is completely self taught and only learned to read music fairly recently. He is a musician.
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Diamond Dog
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Re: Reading music

Postby Diamond Dog » 22 Nov 2017, 17:43

The Modernist wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:
The Modernist wrote:
I wouldn't dare to employ a string quartet without having someone else write them notated instruction,



Which is of course exactly what McCartney did... there's that lovely Youtube clip of where he stands in front of them and (rather shamefacedly) says "I don;t know what all this means (looking at the score) but I can tell you exactly how it should sound.." (I paraphrase, obviously). I liked him a little bit more when I first saw that.


I definitely didn't say that. If I employed a string quartet I'd have to get them to do something else, like do my guttering or something!


Corrected! :)
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take5_d_shorterer
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Re: Reading music

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 22 Nov 2017, 20:21

Learning to read music isn't necessary if you're a badass like Helmut Walcha.





Boy, that makes me feel ignorant.

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BARON CORNY DOG
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Re: Reading music

Postby BARON CORNY DOG » 22 Nov 2017, 20:37

That IS pretty incredible. I had never even considered learning each voice like that (mind you, I couldn’t even approach playing most of that to begin with) but it makes perfect sense.
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Re: Reading music

Postby sloopjohnc » 22 Nov 2017, 21:01

take5_d_shorterer wrote:Learning to read music isn't necessary if you're a badass like Helmut Walcha.





Boy, that makes me feel ignorant.


The last thing I'd consider myself is a badass, but I would claim ignorance in lots of things, including this.
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Re: Reading music

Postby Jimbo » 25 Nov 2017, 15:10

Lesson one: My Dog Has Fleas
Question authority.

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Tactful Cactus
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Re: Reading music

Postby Tactful Cactus » 26 Nov 2017, 11:45

That story that McCartney tells in 67 of hopping into a cab and the driver not allowing him to look at his sheet music because its "high art" and he wouldn't get it. Why did McCartney want to look if he couldn't read it. Did he want to pretend and try to prove the cab driver wrong, or did he just want to look at the pattern of the music and try and decipher something from it? I wondered about that, in another interview he almost takes pride in not being able to read music, setting himself apart from the old Lionel Bart set.

I can't read -- it makes working out songs very frustrating sometimes, but there's some reward in figuring it out yourself. Especially if you tried 2 or 3 years ago, failed, and then you try again and you can suddenly 'hear' it.

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Quaco
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Re: Reading music

Postby Quaco » 26 Nov 2017, 19:22

I can't read music, though I understand it well enough to work bits out if necessary. It takes me a while though. I have no idea why reading music should inhibit one in terms of creativity. I suspect the problem would be more to do with other things, such as not being exposed to a wide enough variety of music in a traditional musical education, or anything other than reading and playing being discouraged. The traditional classical music education is like teaching someone to read only to recite great works, without giving them having the ability to think and speak on their feet. But the tool of reading itself isn't the problem, surely. No one claims there to be any creative benefit in not being able to read the written word.

Joe Jackson said in an interview that reading music is easy. It's like a language with a few simple rules that never change, and only about 20 different words (paraphrasing). Certainly, one can look at Joe Jackson's music and say it's over-studied-sounding; he's certainly a classicist. Then again, I'd rather have Joe Jackson's skill set than Syd Barrett's.

I think most musicians' lack of reading skill is mostly laziness and being able to get by without it, not that not having it makes them any more creative.
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Quaco
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Re: Reading music

Postby Quaco » 26 Nov 2017, 19:23

Darryl Strawberry wrote:I am read music

But you not write words!
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Penk!
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Re: Reading music

Postby Penk! » 26 Nov 2017, 19:58

I can read music, having had piano and cello lessons as a nipper. I can still plonk myself down at the piano and bash out some tunes, though learning something like 'Life on Mars' would take a lot more application and talent: the version posted in this thread would be easy, but that's just the melody line. Doing Wakeman's actual piano part would be beyond me.
I'm a reasonable guitarist, but entirely self-taught using tabs and chord charts; I couldn't sit down and play a piece on guitar from sheet music, and in fact am not much good in certain areas of guitar playing (fingerpicking for example, as I learnt mainly on electric).
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Samoan
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Re: Reading music

Postby Samoan » 26 Nov 2017, 20:26

I can read as I had to learn piano quite young but my sight reading was poor.
The other times I've read it, enjoyed it and found it essential is when choir singing, especially a Scratch Messiah.
Nonsense to the aggressiveness, I've seen more aggression on the my little pony message board......I mean I was told.

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The Modernist
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Re: Reading music

Postby The Modernist » 26 Nov 2017, 20:56

Quaco wrote: Then again, I'd rather have Joe Jackson's skill set than Syd Barrett's.


Why?

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Re: Reading music

Postby Quaco » 26 Nov 2017, 21:03

The Modernist wrote:
Quaco wrote: Then again, I'd rather have Joe Jackson's skill set than Syd Barrett's.


Why?

I guess because I would rather know what I'm doing when making art. Someone who works seemingly on instinct can produce wonderful things -- I definitely prefer Barrett's work to Jackson's overall -- but at some point, you run out of ideas and can't figure out how to get past it. With a good knowledge of music and technique, you can figure out ways out of the problems musicians all inevitably face.
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Bent Fabric
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Re: Reading music

Postby Bent Fabric » 26 Nov 2017, 22:03

Quaco wrote:...anything other than reading and playing being discouraged. The traditional classical music education is like teaching someone to read only to recite great works, without giving them having the ability to think and speak on their feet.


Right - My own theory/belief is that it seems probable that you'd have to tune a lot of shit out in order to develop and hone those particular skills (i.e. meaningful, remarkable or useful reading and recitation). But - and surely I've said it before - the person with an unstoppable instinct for music (intuitive areas of hearing, creating, reacting) could probably survive even the most rigid training with no loss to their innate gifts.

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Re: Reading music

Postby Bent Fabric » 26 Nov 2017, 22:08

Quaco wrote:...being able to get by without it...


This is a thing - whatever it is that you're "here for" (let's call it "the pursuit of writing/creating/performing one damn song that can make me break down and cry")...if there's an academic training that displays no perceptible relevance to that purpose or goal, most people in this situation are bound to say "Eh...why should I?"


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