Bernie Or Joe

Do talk back

Who Do You Blame For The DownFall Of The Clash.

Bernie
2
67%
Joe
1
33%
 
Total votes: 3

User avatar
The Great Defector
Posts: 16198
Joined: 07 Jan 2012, 18:16

Bernie Or Joe

Postby The Great Defector » 16 Nov 2017, 14:10

Watched a documentary on the Clash on the sky arts channel and while not their biggest fan I respect them enough to care. Near the end I can't really make up my mind on who was to blame. Strummer for leading the charge to get rid of Jones, or Rhodes for trying and mold them in to his own vision. I know there's the argument that they were on their last leg anyway, but which of the two compounded that more?
Drama Queenie wrote:You are a chauvinist of the quaintest kind. About as threatening as Jack Duckworth, you are a harmless relic of that cherished era when things were 'different'. Now get back to drawing a moustache on that page three model

User avatar
The Modernist
Posts: 9628
Joined: 13 Apr 2014, 20:42

Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby The Modernist » 16 Nov 2017, 14:48

No idea as to the specifics of your question!
But I think the relationship between Jones and Strummer had broken down to some extent. Rhodes backed Strummer, as did Simonon, and so that's where the power was. You get these power dynamics in bands all the time and there's going to be winners and losers as a result. Jones was the loser in The Clash, just as the other Jones was the loser in The Stones.

User avatar
Moleskin
Posts: 14318
Joined: 18 Feb 2004, 12:38
Location: We began to notice that we could be free, And we moved together to the West.

Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby Moleskin » 16 Nov 2017, 15:16

your friend, wikipedia wrote:Following a break after the Clash's performance at the 1983 US Festival, the band reconvened that June for rehearsals in London.[1] About a week into rehearsals, tensions present within the group throughout the year re-emerged, reportedly due to a musical difference of opinion brought about by guitarist Mick Jones's use of a synthesizer he had recently acquired. Another point of contention was Jones's frequent tardiness and absences. By that point, Jones and his songwriting partner Joe Strummer had difficulty communicating with one another; drummer Pete Howard said, "It got to the point where Joe was posting lyrics through Mick's door. He thought the music that Mick was putting to them was a pile of shit". At the same time, Jones refused to sign a new contract presented by Rhodes without taking legal advice; one Clash associate commented that Rhodes was angered by Jones's position, and "twisted Joe up about it", asking Strummer if he really wanted to be in the band with the guitarist. The rehearsals eventually ceased.[2]

In August 1983, the Clash arranged to reconvene to discuss plans for their follow-up to Combat Rock. Speaking of the tension between Strummer and himself, Jones said, "By then, our relationship was . . . bad. We weren't really communicating. The group was dissipating".[3] Not long into the new set of rehearsals, in late August or early September, Strummer and bassist Paul Simonon fired Jones from the Clash.[4]


A bit of both?
@hewsim
-the artist formerly known as comrade moleskin-
-the unforgettable waldo jeffers-

Jug Band Music
my own music

User avatar
The Prof
Composing a revolutionary symphony
Posts: 44896
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:32
Location: A Metropolis of Discontent

Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby The Prof » 16 Nov 2017, 15:19

Although shortly afterwards, Mick Jones hit the ground running with BAD and had Strummer begging him to reform the Clash.
He does, I believe, have a fair bit of Clash music in his possession still waiting for the right time to release it. ie/ A 30th anniversary of London Callling

User avatar
Moleskin
Posts: 14318
Joined: 18 Feb 2004, 12:38
Location: We began to notice that we could be free, And we moved together to the West.

Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby Moleskin » 16 Nov 2017, 15:24

40th surely? 30 was 2009, or 2010 if you're an American.
@hewsim
-the artist formerly known as comrade moleskin-
-the unforgettable waldo jeffers-

Jug Band Music
my own music

User avatar
Charlie O.
Posts: 38090
Joined: 21 Jul 2003, 19:53
Location: In-A-Badda-La-Wadda, bay-beh

Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby Charlie O. » 16 Nov 2017, 16:02

I do remember that when Strummer and Jones got back together for... was it the third BAD album? (not gonna look it up)... Joe told Mick "You were right about Bernie."

Not that that proves anything.
Image

User avatar
The Great Defector
Posts: 16198
Joined: 07 Jan 2012, 18:16

Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby The Great Defector » 16 Nov 2017, 16:33

It's easy to go to wiki, interested in BCB's thoughts.
Drama Queenie wrote:You are a chauvinist of the quaintest kind. About as threatening as Jack Duckworth, you are a harmless relic of that cherished era when things were 'different'. Now get back to drawing a moustache on that page three model

User avatar
Dayodead
Posts: 170
Joined: 15 May 2015, 21:39

Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby Dayodead » 16 Nov 2017, 16:55

All three are to blame...

User avatar
Sneelock
Posts: 10145
Joined: 19 Nov 2011, 23:56
Location: Lincoln Head City

Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby Sneelock » 16 Nov 2017, 17:24

I blame society.
"Wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns.”

User avatar
sloopjohnc
Posts: 60303
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 20:12
Location: One quake away from beachfront property
Contact:

Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby sloopjohnc » 16 Nov 2017, 17:25

And I thought this was going to be about Bernie Leadon vs. Joe Walsh in the Eagles.
Sneelock wrote:You’ll like her better after she dies. Siouxsie won’t ever die. She’s a vampire or some shit.

User avatar
sloopjohnc
Posts: 60303
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 20:12
Location: One quake away from beachfront property
Contact:

Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby sloopjohnc » 16 Nov 2017, 17:27

Sneelock wrote:I blame society.


Sneelock wrote:You’ll like her better after she dies. Siouxsie won’t ever die. She’s a vampire or some shit.

User avatar
bobzilla77
Posts: 15102
Joined: 23 Jun 2006, 02:56
Location: Dilute! Dilute! OK!

Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby bobzilla77 » 17 Nov 2017, 19:26

I thought it was, which old white guy do you want to run for president, Biden or Sanders?

It sounds like all three of them could have made a stand for cool heads prevailing... taken a vacation and come back in six months. But they were too volatile and impatient. Youth is wasted on the young.
Jimbo wrote:The Natural Times said no matter, essentially we are all doomed.


User avatar
kewl klive
cultural defective
Posts: 14221
Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 00:32
Location: Petrus inhibito pompus

Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby kewl klive » 17 Nov 2017, 22:43

There is very little in The Clash vaults. A deluxe Sandinista! was pulled when only one outtake could be found. One exception is Combat Rock, issuing the proposed (and handed-in) Rat Patrol From Fort Bragg would be ace, though I’m not sure if the masters are around.

It’s a shame that there aren’t outtakes from the Sandy Pearlman sessions.

A live series would be welcome but, again, I don’t think much was professionally recorded (much of From Here... is overdubbed) and the Sound System box was supposed to be their last word.
Lonely Kal wrote:John posted a picture of me which he'd doctored nastily.

Ho Ho Hodgson wrote:I know you think I pick on you.

Baldy K wrote:I'd love to meet Jeemo (no idea if he'd like to meet me).

User avatar
German Dave
Utter Cad
Posts: 50126
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:22
Location: 16 Beasley Street

Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby German Dave » 19 Nov 2017, 13:12

sloopjohnc wrote:And I thought this was going to be about Bernie Leadon vs. Joe Walsh in the Eagles.


Me too. :lol:
kewl klive wrote:A deluxe Sandinista! was pulled when only one outtake could be found.


User avatar
Bride Of Sea Of Tunes
Posts: 17565
Joined: 17 Oct 2010, 14:10
Location: The Nether World

Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby Bride Of Sea Of Tunes » 19 Nov 2017, 14:23

sloopjohnc wrote:And I thought this was going to be about Bernie Leadon vs. Joe Walsh in the Eagles.


I thought it was dobro virtuoso Bernie Sanders versus horn blower Joe McCarthy.

Give me the dobro anytime.
The invisible and the non-existing very much look alike.