Bernie Or Joe

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Who Do You Blame For The DownFall Of The Clash.

Bernie
2
67%
Joe
1
33%
 
Total votes: 3

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Dr Markus
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Bernie Or Joe

Postby Dr Markus » 16 Nov 2017, 14:10

Watched a documentary on the Clash on the sky arts channel and while not their biggest fan I respect them enough to care. Near the end I can't really make up my mind on who was to blame. Strummer for leading the charge to get rid of Jones, or Rhodes for trying and mold them in to his own vision. I know there's the argument that they were on their last leg anyway, but which of the two compounded that more?
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The Modernist
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Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby The Modernist » 16 Nov 2017, 14:48

No idea as to the specifics of your question!
But I think the relationship between Jones and Strummer had broken down to some extent. Rhodes backed Strummer, as did Simonon, and so that's where the power was. You get these power dynamics in bands all the time and there's going to be winners and losers as a result. Jones was the loser in The Clash, just as the other Jones was the loser in The Stones.

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Moleskin
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Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby Moleskin » 16 Nov 2017, 15:16

your friend, wikipedia wrote:Following a break after the Clash's performance at the 1983 US Festival, the band reconvened that June for rehearsals in London.[1] About a week into rehearsals, tensions present within the group throughout the year re-emerged, reportedly due to a musical difference of opinion brought about by guitarist Mick Jones's use of a synthesizer he had recently acquired. Another point of contention was Jones's frequent tardiness and absences. By that point, Jones and his songwriting partner Joe Strummer had difficulty communicating with one another; drummer Pete Howard said, "It got to the point where Joe was posting lyrics through Mick's door. He thought the music that Mick was putting to them was a pile of shit". At the same time, Jones refused to sign a new contract presented by Rhodes without taking legal advice; one Clash associate commented that Rhodes was angered by Jones's position, and "twisted Joe up about it", asking Strummer if he really wanted to be in the band with the guitarist. The rehearsals eventually ceased.[2]

In August 1983, the Clash arranged to reconvene to discuss plans for their follow-up to Combat Rock. Speaking of the tension between Strummer and himself, Jones said, "By then, our relationship was . . . bad. We weren't really communicating. The group was dissipating".[3] Not long into the new set of rehearsals, in late August or early September, Strummer and bassist Paul Simonon fired Jones from the Clash.[4]


A bit of both?
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The Prof
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Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby The Prof » 16 Nov 2017, 15:19

Although shortly afterwards, Mick Jones hit the ground running with BAD and had Strummer begging him to reform the Clash.
He does, I believe, have a fair bit of Clash music in his possession still waiting for the right time to release it. ie/ A 30th anniversary of London Callling

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Moleskin
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Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby Moleskin » 16 Nov 2017, 15:24

40th surely? 30 was 2009, or 2010 if you're an American.
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Charlie O.
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Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby Charlie O. » 16 Nov 2017, 16:02

I do remember that when Strummer and Jones got back together for... was it the third BAD album? (not gonna look it up)... Joe told Mick "You were right about Bernie."

Not that that proves anything.
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Dr Markus
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Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby Dr Markus » 16 Nov 2017, 16:33

It's easy to go to wiki, interested in BCB's thoughts.
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Dayodead
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Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby Dayodead » 16 Nov 2017, 16:55

All three are to blame...

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Sneelock
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Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby Sneelock » 16 Nov 2017, 17:24

I blame society.
uggy poopy doody.

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Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby sloopjohnc » 16 Nov 2017, 17:25

And I thought this was going to be about Bernie Leadon vs. Joe Walsh in the Eagles.
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Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby sloopjohnc » 16 Nov 2017, 17:27

Sneelock wrote:I blame society.


Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk!

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Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby bobzilla77 » 17 Nov 2017, 19:26

I thought it was, which old white guy do you want to run for president, Biden or Sanders?

It sounds like all three of them could have made a stand for cool heads prevailing... taken a vacation and come back in six months. But they were too volatile and impatient. Youth is wasted on the young.
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clive gash
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Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby clive gash » 17 Nov 2017, 22:43

There is very little in The Clash vaults. A deluxe Sandinista! was pulled when only one outtake could be found. One exception is Combat Rock, issuing the proposed (and handed-in) Rat Patrol From Fort Bragg would be ace, though I’m not sure if the masters are around.

It’s a shame that there aren’t outtakes from the Sandy Pearlman sessions.

A live series would be welcome but, again, I don’t think much was professionally recorded (much of From Here... is overdubbed) and the Sound System box was supposed to be their last word.
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Re: Bernie Or Joe

Postby Your Friendly Neighbourhood Postman » 19 Nov 2017, 14:23

sloopjohnc wrote:And I thought this was going to be about Bernie Leadon vs. Joe Walsh in the Eagles.


I thought it was dobro virtuoso Bernie Sanders versus horn blower Joe McCarthy.

Give me the dobro anytime.
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