Beatles

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yes
13
65%
no
7
35%
 
Total votes: 20

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Matt Wilson
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Re: Beatles

Postby Matt Wilson » 07 Feb 2018, 19:06

The Modernist wrote:
Matt Wilson wrote:Name me a record that sounds like "Eight Miles High" that came before it.


That's not the question I asked Matt. You're moving the goalposts now. I'd also say "Eight Miles High" is one of the most original records of the sixties.


Yes, G - nothing sounded like "Tomorrow Never Knows" before that. But what makes it unique? Backwards tapes, trippy lyrics and the Eastern tone. All of which had been introduced to pop music before the Beatles.

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Re: Beatles

Postby LeBaron » 07 Feb 2018, 19:09

Granting you the truth of everything you say (for the sake of argument), it just goes to show how worthless or meaningless being “original” or “the first” really is.
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The Modernist
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Re: Beatles

Postby The Modernist » 07 Feb 2018, 19:13

Had they all been introduced? I'm not so sure they had. I don't think anyone had used tape loops in that way on a pop record before. There were avant-garde guys doing it sure, but not within the context of pop music.
The thing is Matt there''s not a single musician who ever lived who is original in the purest sense of the word..maybe the first guy to ever pick up a musical instrument was. But if we take a less pure definition of the word and consider it more in terms of innovation, then The Beatles were probably the most innovative band of all time..which isn't to say there weren't other great innovators.

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The Modernist
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Re: Beatles

Postby The Modernist » 07 Feb 2018, 19:16

Very Stable Baron wrote:Granting you the truth of everything you say (for the sake of argument), it just goes to show how worthless or meaningless being “original” or “the first” really is.


Bowie had a great quote on that. He said something like 'it's not important who comes first, coming second is what counts'. What he meant was that the ideas are already out there, but maybe are only half-developed or poorly executed; it's being able to see something in those ideas and execute therm on a whole other level that makes an impact with people that is the real artistic achievement.

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Re: Beatles

Postby Matt Wilson » 07 Feb 2018, 19:35

Guys, I'm not anti-Beatles or anything. I like them as much as you do. Johnny C said to say something which I'd never said before (truth is, I probably did say it here before), so I did.

But that still doesn't make me think the Beatles were originators - doesn't matter if you like that term or not. They were great alchemists who rode a popular wave and were very talented songwriters as well as great media personalities. They had not one, but two genius songwriters (can any other band make that claim? Were Jagger/Richards geniuses?) and a producer who may as well have been the fifth member of the band.

There's lots more I could say but I simply refuse to continue the promoting of new Beatles threads

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The Modernist
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Re: Beatles

Postby The Modernist » 07 Feb 2018, 20:01

Who would you call an originator then?

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Re: Beatles

Postby Matt Wilson » 07 Feb 2018, 20:14

They'd probably be mostly African American. Miles Davis, Chuck Berry, Muddy Waters, Bob Dylan, Louis Armstrong...

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Re: Beatles

Postby Matt Wilson » 07 Feb 2018, 20:14

Probably Duke Ellington, but I don't know enough about him.

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Re: Beatles

Postby Count Machuki » 07 Feb 2018, 20:51

Jubal

People been ripping him off since Genesis days

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jubal_(Bible)
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Re: Beatles

Postby The Modernist » 07 Feb 2018, 20:56

Matt Wilson wrote:They'd probably be mostly African American. Miles Davis, Chuck Berry, Muddy Waters, Bob Dylan, Louis Armstrong...


All innovators and originators (I'm less sure about Muddy Waters though, but I don't have a great blues knowledge), but none were more original than The Beatles were.

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Re: Beatles

Postby Diamond Dog » 07 Feb 2018, 21:01

OCT wrote:Say something you’ve never said (here) about them before.



They would have been equally successful without Harrison or Starr - indeed, musically, they may have actually been better.
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Re: Beatles

Postby Matt Wilson » 07 Feb 2018, 21:13

The Modernist wrote:
Matt Wilson wrote:They'd probably be mostly African American. Miles Davis, Chuck Berry, Muddy Waters, Bob Dylan, Louis Armstrong...


All innovators and originators (I'm less sure about Muddy Waters though, but I don't have a great blues knowledge), but none were more original than The Beatles were.


Only a person with no knowledge of pre-rock music would say that Geraint.

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Re: Beatles

Postby BOLLY BEE » 07 Feb 2018, 21:13

Diamond Dog wrote:
OCT wrote:Say something you’ve never said (here) about them before.



They would have been equally successful without Harrison or Starr - indeed, musically, they may have actually been better.


I was going to post something similar earlier but really couldn’t be arsed with the hoo-hah. But yes - provided everything else was the same, I believe this is quite probable.
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Re: Beatles

Postby soundchaser » 07 Feb 2018, 21:13

Count Machuki wrote:Jubal

People been ripping him off since Genesis days


Is that Jubal Collins?

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The Modernist
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Re: Beatles

Postby The Modernist » 07 Feb 2018, 21:26

Matt Wilson wrote:
The Modernist wrote:
Matt Wilson wrote:They'd probably be mostly African American. Miles Davis, Chuck Berry, Muddy Waters, Bob Dylan, Louis Armstrong...


All innovators and originators (I'm less sure about Muddy Waters though, but I don't have a great blues knowledge), but none were more original than The Beatles were.


Only a person with no knowledge of pre-rock music would say that Geraint.


Not at all, I'm quite secure in my knowledge when I say that. Because they were involved in the early stages of some American genres you might have more respect for them, but that doesn't mean they were more artistically original than The Beatles.

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Re: Beatles

Postby jimboo » 07 Feb 2018, 21:28

The Modernist wrote:
Matt Wilson wrote:They'd probably be mostly African American. Miles Davis, Chuck Berry, Muddy Waters, Bob Dylan, Louis Armstrong...


All innovators and originators (I'm less sure about Muddy Waters though, but I don't have a great blues knowledge), but none were more original than The Beatles were.


Original what exactly ?
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The Modernist
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Re: Beatles

Postby The Modernist » 07 Feb 2018, 21:30

I don't understand the question. Are you asking how were they original?

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Re: Beatles

Postby jimboo » 07 Feb 2018, 21:35

Yeah , experimentation in their work?
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Re: Beatles

Postby The Modernist » 07 Feb 2018, 21:37

jimboo wrote:Yeah , experimentation in their work?


'Tomorrow Never Knows' and Strawberry Fields Forever' would be two examples.

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Re: Beatles

Postby Diamond Dog » 07 Feb 2018, 21:39

The Modernist wrote:
jimboo wrote:Yeah , experimentation in their work?


'Tomorrow Never Knows' and Strawberry Fields Forever' would be two examples.



The string crescendo in "A Day In The Life" another.
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