90s or Covers Cup?

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which Cup is next off the rank?

90s Cup
13
48%
Covers Cup
14
52%
 
Total votes: 27

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sloopjohnc
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Re: 90s or Covers Cup?

Postby sloopjohnc » 19 Sep 2017, 21:39

never/ever wrote:Because i can only run one Cup at a time. The 90s Cup will go up next.
Unless you're volunteering....


I can't run it and lose at the same time.
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Re: 90s or Covers Cup?

Postby never/ever » 19 Sep 2017, 21:44

sloopjohnc wrote:
never/ever wrote:Because i can only run one Cup at a time. The 90s Cup will go up next.
Unless you're volunteering....


I can't run it and lose at the same time.


If I can, you can.....
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Re: 90s or Covers Cup?

Postby sloopjohnc » 20 Sep 2017, 00:38

What about rap songs that sample big chunks of a song throughout?
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Re: 90s or Covers Cup?

Postby sloopjohnc » 20 Sep 2017, 06:37

Another question. What if the cover is the definitive version?

Like CSN&Y with Woodstock or the Band with the Night They Drove Dixie Down or Jimi with Wild Thing?
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Re: 90s or Covers Cup?

Postby fange » 20 Sep 2017, 07:42

sloopjohnc wrote:What about rap songs that sample big chunks of a song throughout?

For me this is a no. Though some hip hop songs may use a sample to such an extent that it almost sounds like a cover, the new lyrics/rap make it a new song to my ears.


sloopjohnc wrote:Another question. What if the cover is the definitive version?

Like CSN&Y with Woodstock or the Band with the Night They Drove Dixie Down or Jimi with Wild Thing?

This, you would think, is the whole point - can a cover version be as good or even better than the original. The Jimi one is a good case in point; i like it, but i still like the Troggs' version best. Doesn't mean i might not vote for Jimi though, just depends on which song it's up against.
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Re: 90s or Covers Cup?

Postby PENK » 20 Sep 2017, 09:11

Since when has the Hendrix cover been the "definitive" version of 'Wild Thing'?
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Re: 90s or Covers Cup?

Postby kewl klive » 20 Sep 2017, 09:15

Six months after The Band's cover of The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down.
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Re: 90s or Covers Cup?

Postby Darkness_Fish » 20 Sep 2017, 09:30

Sloop starts on minus points for even suggesting such ludicrosity.
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Re: 90s or Covers Cup?

Postby sloopjohnc » 20 Sep 2017, 16:24

Darkness_Fish wrote:Sloop starts on minus points for even suggesting such ludicrosity.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: 90s or Covers Cup?

Postby sloopjohnc » 20 Sep 2017, 16:26

PENK wrote:Since when has the Hendrix cover been the "definitive" version of 'Wild Thing'?


I think it's come around. I would very much doubt that many folks would've heard the Troggs until Jimi recorded his version. That's a pure guess.

Kinda like when Jimi played Sgt. Pepper's on stage. Very few had heard of the Beatles. . .

Stupid name and all that. Heck, the Troggs is a better name than Beatles.
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Re: 90s or Covers Cup?

Postby sloopjohnc » 20 Sep 2017, 16:27

fange wrote:
sloopjohnc wrote:What about rap songs that sample big chunks of a song throughout?

For me this is a no. Though some hip hop songs may use a sample to such an extent that it almost sounds like a cover, the new lyrics/rap make it a new song to my ears.


sloopjohnc wrote:Another question. What if the cover is the definitive version?

Like CSN&Y with Woodstock or the Band with the Night They Drove Dixie Down or Jimi with Wild Thing?

This, you would think, is the whole point - can a cover version be as good or even better than the original. The Jimi one is a good case in point; i like it, but i still like the Troggs' version best. Doesn't mean i might not vote for Jimi though, just depends on which song it's up against.


Appreciate the clarification.
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Re: 90s or Covers Cup?

Postby Loki » 20 Sep 2017, 21:10

fange wrote:This, you would think, is the whole point - can a cover version be as good or even better than the original.

My thoughts as well. Does it do the original justice? Did they improve on it?

And what if it's a song that's been covered by many artists? I wouldn't want to try to judge whether it's the best of all; rather, measure it against the original recording.

That's what I'm thinking so far, unless someone else has a better perspective. Maarts would make the final call.


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Re: 90s or Covers Cup?

Postby never/ever » 20 Sep 2017, 21:24

Until I have a reasonable number of entrants. Not gonna wait too long.

I echo fange's answer on sloop's questions. Samples don't equate being an original recording reworked.
And whatever judgement you use in determining the winner of a tie, it comes down to an A or a B for me....
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Re: 90s or Covers Cup?

Postby Darkness_Fish » 20 Sep 2017, 21:40

never/ever wrote:I echo fange's answer on sloop's questions. Samples don't equate being an original recording reworked.

Alternatively, we could just choose whatever and if people don't agree it's enough of a cover, they can vote it down. I mean, the definition of a cover should be quite loose if Deep Purple were acceptable in a Loud Cup.
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Re: 90s or Covers Cup?

Postby never/ever » 20 Sep 2017, 21:47

Yeah but rap uses original samples from original recordings and even if the track as such would use the framework of an original song (De La Soul, etc) I think it would not be a cover per se as the rap-parts themselves would be completely original.
Considering the number of pedants roaming around here you may best avoid raising that discussion beforehand. Best stick with Disturbed's Sound Of Silence the millions of other tracks you can choose from.
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Re: 90s or Covers Cup?

Postby Loki » 20 Sep 2017, 22:33

Would it be a good idea to note the original as well, when submitting our lists?


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Re: 90s or Covers Cup?

Postby never/ever » 21 Sep 2017, 15:10

You can if you want, it is a good idea if the track is obscure.
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Re: 90s or Covers Cup?

Postby Osgood » 21 Sep 2017, 16:01

I will likely vote for obscure, good, irreverent versions of well known tracks.

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Re: 90s or Covers Cup?

Postby sloopjohnc » 21 Sep 2017, 16:45

never/ever wrote:Yeah but rap uses original samples from original recordings and even if the track as such would use the framework of an original song (De La Soul, etc) I think it would not be a cover per se as the rap-parts themselves would be completely original.
Considering the number of pedants roaming around here you may best avoid raising that discussion beforehand. Best stick with Disturbed's Sound Of Silence the millions of other tracks you can choose from.


I thought that was the answer I was going to get, but sometimes I take perverse glee in taking on the pedants.

Here are the two I was thinking about using.



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Re: 90s or Covers Cup?

Postby Count Machuki » 21 Sep 2017, 17:59

C
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Then it follows that ∀ k ∈ K: K ∈ U ⇒ k ∉ D

Covers Cup Champion 2017