Musical betrayals

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Matt Wilson
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Re: Musical betrayals

Postby Matt Wilson » 05 Aug 2017, 17:00

Rod sold out, yes, but then, as has been widely said, he never really pretended to be an artist anyway. He always wanted to make money and fuck models. When it was in vogue to be artistic, Rod was that; when the '70s really hit and the money, drugs, and women were fashionable, Rod followed suit. Like Elvis, he always did what he wanted to do. I'm not so sure it was a 'betrayal.'

And the Replacements going downhill after Stinson left strikes me as a tad disingenuous as well because Pleased to Meet Me is one of their top albums.

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Re: Musical betrayals

Postby borofan » 05 Aug 2017, 17:09

Moleskin wrote:Not popular round here at all, but Ultravox working with George Martin on Quartet after the much more chewy and satisfying Rage In Eden. They didn't get that edge back.

Ultravox never recovered artistically from the loss of John Foxx and the exclamation mark. The empty bombast of Vienna was a particular low point.
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Re: Musical betrayals

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 05 Aug 2017, 17:57

Still Baron wrote:I wonder whether Rod really "meant it" any more when he was with Jeff Beck or the Faces than when he was doing disco or whatever we think is unacceptable. Maybe he's always just been a feckless follower of fashion.


That's the reason I don't really dwell on the question.

Rod Stewart's (or any other performer's) interest in making a lot of money isn't that interesting or mysterious, but the fact that 4 million people bought "Da Ya Think I'm Sexy?" is.

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Re: Musical betrayals

Postby Charlie O. » 05 Aug 2017, 18:26

Matt Wilson wrote:And the Replacements going downhill after Stinson left strikes me as a tad disingenuous as well because Pleased to Meet Me is one of their top albums.

Really? I've always heard it as a very noticeable drop from Tim, some good songs notwithstanding.
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Re: Musical betrayals

Postby toomanyhatz » 05 Aug 2017, 18:33

I'm with Matt on this one. They really rose to the occasion on Pleased to Meet Me. It became more of a Westerberg solo project after, and they lost a bit of their youthful wackiness, but that was never going to last forever anyway.

And the talk of Rod made me think of the Bee Gees. Interesting no one ever recalls their disco years as a 'sell-out' (they certainly did at the time!) I think it's because in retrospect we know they were ALWAYS chasing whatever was the hip sound on the charts at the time.
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Re: Musical betrayals

Postby Bride Of Sea Of Tunes » 05 Aug 2017, 18:43

toomanyhatz wrote:I'm with Matt on this one. They really rose to the occasion on Pleased to Meet Me. It became more of a Westerberg solo project after, and they lost a bit of their youthful wackiness, but that was never going to last forever anyway.

And the talk of Rod made me think of the Bee Gees. Interesting no one ever recalls their disco years as a 'sell-out' (they certainly did at the time!) I think it's because in retrospect we know they were ALWAYS chasing whatever was the hip sound on the charts at the time.


Agree on both points. PTMM is for me the peak of the Mats' career. The song 'Alex Chilton' is so good. It seems to have two or even three different powerpop choruses, where other bands have trouble coming up with a decent one at all.

The Bee Gees is a good find, when discussing Rod's changes in style.
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Re: Musical betrayals

Postby Matt Wilson » 05 Aug 2017, 18:57

I don't know how you could be a Mats fan and not think that Pleased to Meet Me isn't one of their best albums. It's not like any of the first three LPs are better.

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Re: Musical betrayals

Postby Charlie O. » 05 Aug 2017, 19:05

You guys are hearing a different Pleased To Meet Me than I am. I envy you.

And yes, I do say that every album before it was better.
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Re: Musical betrayals

Postby Matt Wilson » 05 Aug 2017, 19:13

Of course, and everyone's opinion is valid. I'm sure there's some who feel that Out of Our Heads is better than Beggars Banquet.

I'm just not one of them.

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Re: Musical betrayals

Postby The Modernist » 05 Aug 2017, 20:06

borofan wrote:
Moleskin wrote:Not popular round here at all, but Ultravox working with George Martin on Quartet after the much more chewy and satisfying Rage In Eden. They didn't get that edge back.

Ultravox never recovered artistically from the loss of John Foxx and the exclamation mark. The empty bombast of Vienna was a particular low point.


It's about time Vienna was reclaimed as a high point of early 80s arch, sweeping ambition; who writes songs inspired by The Habsburg Empire today?
Although I prefer Foxx era Ultravox, the Foxx era good/Ure era bad binary is too simplistic and pat.

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Re: Musical betrayals

Postby Darkness_Fish » 05 Aug 2017, 20:22

The Modernist wrote:
borofan wrote:
Moleskin wrote:Not popular round here at all, but Ultravox working with George Martin on Quartet after the much more chewy and satisfying Rage In Eden. They didn't get that edge back.

Ultravox never recovered artistically from the loss of John Foxx and the exclamation mark. The empty bombast of Vienna was a particular low point.


It's about time Vienna was reclaimed as a high point of early 80s arch, sweeping ambition; who writes songs inspired by The Habsburg Empire today?

I was about to write something similar myself. I think Ultravox are practically worthless in the Ure era, but "Vienna" is one hell of a pop song, it's a synth-pop masterpiece, there's nothing empty about the bombast deployed. I can't think of a song that can be more easily recognised by drum beat alone, either. Dum ... ... Dum Dum-Dum ... cah-cah.
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Re: Musical betrayals

Postby !!VAPRANT!! » 05 Aug 2017, 20:26

Anything else from that era?

'Dancing With Tears In My Eyes'?
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Re: Musical betrayals

Postby Darkness_Fish » 05 Aug 2017, 20:30

Nah, fuck that. Always makes me think that he's been kicked in the nuts for trying a crafty grope on the dancefloor.
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Re: Musical betrayals

Postby !!VAPRANT!! » 05 Aug 2017, 20:34

:)
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Re: Musical betrayals

Postby The Modernist » 05 Aug 2017, 20:37

Dr. B. Eef wrote:Anything else from that era?

'Dancing With Tears In My Eyes'?


Wasn't so keen on that one, but count me in for "Reap The Wild Wind", "All Stood Still" and "The New Europeans".

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Re: Musical betrayals

Postby Diamond Dog » 05 Aug 2017, 20:41

I think "All Stood Still", "Lament" "Passing Strangers" and "The Thin Wall" are worthy of mention.... :oops:
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Re: Musical betrayals

Postby Bent Fabric » 05 Aug 2017, 21:56

toomanyhatz wrote:And the talk of Rod made me think of the Bee Gees. Interesting no one ever recalls their disco years as a 'sell-out' (they certainly did at the time!) I think it's because in retrospect we know they were ALWAYS chasing whatever was the hip sound on the charts at the time.


I don't know whether I like them any more or less than you (and I most certainly love them a great deal), but hearing those 75-79 era Bee Gees records today, I only wish there were more of them (which is saying something - considering their dominance and ubiquity at the time, and their hand in everything from Andy Gibb, Frankie Valli, Samantha Sang, Barbara Streisand, Yvonne Elliman, etc.).

The fatigue and backlash that their oversaturation inspired in real time was inevitable, perhaps (whether Gibb-helmed disco perceptibly "sucked" any more or less than, say, Chic or Donna Summer is something only our older neighbors can accurately recall), but...I think those records are - in the main - touched by the hand of God. Blue Weaver's enormous Moog bass low end, the crisp percussion, the strings, the melancholy dramatic chord changes (all that stuff, "Too Much Heaven", "More Than A Woman", "(Love Is) Thicker Than Water", "Nights On Broadway", "Night Fever", "If I Can't Have You", "A Woman In Love", "I Just Want to Be Your Everything" has that classic Gibb "life or death chords of heartbreak" gravitas/melodic tension) - my inclination to go out on a (possibly contrarian) limb of claiming its superiority to 1967 era Bee Gees (which now affects me as strikingly advanced beyond its years) may be waning, but..I will certainly say that it all seems a fair bit more meritous than whatever "Rod Stewart's biggest post Faces-era hits" might be. Both come up on my radio like clockwork, and...there's a difference. My kids would never notice me shutting off the latter, but if we even got so far as one second into something like "Jive Talkin'" or "Tragedy" without my raising the volume, I'd get some real grief.

I've had some version of "the Bee Gees conversation" before - I've heard the view that their gift is in mercenary uninspired hackwork (all of it, not just the disco, but "Lonely Days", "Words", "How Can You Mend...", "Massachusetts", "To Love Somebody"), the sort of thing a jingle writer could crap out, and nowhere near worthy of the respect we give to..."auteurs", perhaps. Probably not your view, and most definitely not mine.

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Re: Musical betrayals

Postby Minnie the Minx » 06 Aug 2017, 00:22

I'm completely baffled by the hatred for "Do You Think I'm Sexy' - it is quite clearly a bloody great song.
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Re: Musical betrayals

Postby Sneelock » 06 Aug 2017, 00:26

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Re: Musical betrayals

Postby Charlie O. » 06 Aug 2017, 00:46

A.Tremble wrote:I'm completely baffled by the hatred for "Do You Think I'm Sexy' - it is quite clearly a bloody great song.

Yeah, actually. I didn't think so at the time, but I do now.
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