Musical betrayals

Do talk back
User avatar
Rayge
Posts: 10336
Joined: 14 Aug 2013, 11:37
Location: deepest Devon
Contact:

Re: Musical betrayals

Postby Rayge » 05 Aug 2017, 11:55

Dr. B. Eef wrote:I suppose I could say I felt betrayed by Beefheart's later stuff. Or I would have, if I'd grown up with him and those last couple of albums had come out when I was a record-buying adult.


Doc at the Radar Station and Ice Cream for Crow are brilliant, John, as good as Decals and better than any others (apart of course from the sui generis TMR).
Clear Spot was the 'betrayal' album for me and that Virgin shit - pah!

Edit - sorry, didn't realize there was a page two where all this had been covered :oops:
You can't play a tune on an absolute

When the ball sleeps it dreams it is a Frisbee

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law, love under will

User avatar
Bride Of Sea Of Tunes
Posts: 17025
Joined: 17 Oct 2010, 14:10
Location: The Nether World

Re: Musical betrayals

Postby Bride Of Sea Of Tunes » 05 Aug 2017, 12:33

take5_d_shorterer wrote:Who is really to say whether this is a betrayal or not, but it is strange to see the singer change from one character into another.



Shorty



Dan


Would be my choice too. From Every Picture Tells A Story to Body Wishes is like swimming above the Mariana Trough and then sinking away into it.
The invisible and the non-existing very much look alike.

User avatar
never/ever
Posts: 20838
Joined: 27 Jun 2008, 14:21
Location: Journeying through a burning brain

Re: Musical betrayals

Postby never/ever » 05 Aug 2017, 12:39

So what would you have Rod to do then. Frank?
Ever notice that anyone going slower than you is an idiot, but anyone going faster is a maniac?."

George Carlin

User avatar
Bride Of Sea Of Tunes
Posts: 17025
Joined: 17 Oct 2010, 14:10
Location: The Nether World

Re: Musical betrayals

Postby Bride Of Sea Of Tunes » 05 Aug 2017, 12:51

never/ever wrote:So what would you have Rod to do then. Frank?


Eh... he could've become an expressionistic howler and growler like Tom Waits, instead of making that lame cover of 'Downtown Train'.
The invisible and the non-existing very much look alike.

User avatar
never/ever
Posts: 20838
Joined: 27 Jun 2008, 14:21
Location: Journeying through a burning brain

Re: Musical betrayals

Postby never/ever » 05 Aug 2017, 13:02

So you would want him to become Waits instead of covering him? I doubt if he would ever get to that level of artistic depth, let alone that feeble croak of a voice would ever have that booming quality that Tom got...

I think Rod's run of singles up to Downtown Train was quite good. It was certainly playing off his trademark looks and womanizing ways and very much was a sign of the times... his hits certainly sounded very 80s.

It is when he did the Great American Songbook when he sold out... in fact any singer that ended up recording one of those albums sold their musical soul down the Styx as far as I am concerned.
Ever notice that anyone going slower than you is an idiot, but anyone going faster is a maniac?."

George Carlin

User avatar
Bride Of Sea Of Tunes
Posts: 17025
Joined: 17 Oct 2010, 14:10
Location: The Nether World

Re: Musical betrayals

Postby Bride Of Sea Of Tunes » 05 Aug 2017, 13:08

never/ever wrote:So you would want him to become Waits instead of covering him? I doubt if he would ever get to that level of artistic depth, let alone that feeble croak of a voice would ever have that booming quality that Tom got...

I think Rod's run of singles up to Downtown Train was quite good. It was certainly playing off his trademark looks and womanizing ways and very much was a sign of the times... his hits certainly sounded very 80s.

It is when he did the Great American Songbook when he sold out... in fact any singer that ended up recording one of those albums sold their musical soul down the Styx as far as I am concerned.


Thanks, Maarten -

in fact I deliberately overstated my real point of view. Yes, he started out solo as a fantastic 'impressionist painter' of folk and rock music, and his choice of covers was impeccable ('Mandolin Wind').

In his Warner Bros. years he made many memorable hits - commercial, yes, good, yes! I looked him up at Allmusic and was amazed how many tuneful and danceable things he did. And there's nothing wrong with him having a great run of classic songs to his name, that are loved by people of all ages around the world.

He may have stepped down from being a true 'artist' to a true 'pop entertainer', but as I am typing this, I already wonder why I wrote: 'stepped down'...
The invisible and the non-existing very much look alike.

User avatar
neville harp
cultural defective
Posts: 13231
Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 00:32
Location: pivoting towards woke-ness

Re: Musical betrayals

Postby neville harp » 05 Aug 2017, 13:16

I'm not sure any of Rod's choices have been a betrayal. He'd been on point since '68, time to relax and have a bit of fun. The Great American Songbook thing is one of two possible avenues left to old buggers in the biz - that or a Rick Rubin unplugged record - he's been going for 50 years, perhaps for 10 of them he was on top. A decent haul I'd say.

He never betrayed me, I already knew his trajectory before I heard him. In fact, those early years, incl. The Faces/Jeff Beck, were an unexpected delight.
Diamond Dog wrote:I can only suggest you check the FB thread The Prof started about us - and see how well you did in that me old china.


K wrote: (But I am happily married, John)


User avatar
Scally Mcgrew
apparent poobah
Posts: 14933
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 18:09
Location: ToonTown

Re: Musical betrayals

Postby Scally Mcgrew » 05 Aug 2017, 13:48

Er, Frank...'Mandolin Wind' wasn't a cover, it was written by Rod Stewart.
...for breakfast I eat nails and chains...

User avatar
Bride Of Sea Of Tunes
Posts: 17025
Joined: 17 Oct 2010, 14:10
Location: The Nether World

Re: Musical betrayals

Postby Bride Of Sea Of Tunes » 05 Aug 2017, 14:00

Scally Mcgrew wrote:Er, Frank...'Mandolin Wind' wasn't a cover, it was written by Rod Stewart.


:oops:

I stand corrected.

I really thought that 'Mandolin Wind' was a Dylan cover - I guess that's 'Tomorow's A Long Time', am I right?

At any rate: this thread means quite something to me. I just ordered the 3CD-set 'The Mercury Years - Reason To Believe', new, for only € 15,99.

Thank you, BCB!
The invisible and the non-existing very much look alike.

User avatar
take5_d_shorterer
Posts: 5543
Joined: 22 Sep 2003, 23:09
Location: photo. by Andor Kertesz, Hung.

Re: Musical betrayals

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 05 Aug 2017, 14:29

Tactful Cactus wrote:Anyone mention Elvis Presley yet? A betrayal of his own instincts and a betrayal of his fans in favour of the path of least resistance.


Perhaps the strangest example of all.

From this



to this



Keep in mind as well that Chuck Berry's first single was released in July. Within a month, Elvis was covering the tune.

User avatar
ConnyOlivetti
Probing The Sonic Heritage
Posts: 9588
Joined: 06 Nov 2003, 07:14
Location: Below The North Pole
Contact:

Re: Musical betrayals

Postby ConnyOlivetti » 05 Aug 2017, 14:39

For me...
Peter Baumann
from two excellent albums
to one lame attempt att "synth-pop"
Oh the horror!
never/ever wrote:the BCB-universe...may it continue to piss Coan off ad infinitum.


Un enfant dans electronica!
Je suis!

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 63022
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: Musical betrayals

Postby Diamond Dog » 05 Aug 2017, 15:08

I find it inconceivable that anyone can condone Rod from 80 onwards - unlike Stevie Wonder ,who I actually believe thought he was still making good music (even if it was crap) , Rod knew fully well he was producing shoddy second rate shit.

And lapped it up and gave up trying.

Forever.
David Duke wrote:“Thank you President Trump for your honesty & courage to tell the truth about #Charlottesville & condemn the leftist terrorists.”

Image

User avatar
The Modernist
Posts: 8136
Joined: 13 Apr 2014, 20:42

Re: Musical betrayals

Postby The Modernist » 05 Aug 2017, 15:32

Diamond Dog wrote:I find it inconceivable that anyone can condone Rod from 80 onwards - unlike Stevie Wonder ,who I actually believe thought he was still making good music (even if it was crap) , Rod knew fully well he was producing shoddy second rate shit.

And lapped it up and gave up trying.

Forever.


Thank you Pete. A quite wonderful post.
I believe his disco hits caused disjunctures in the frontal lobes of the brain leading to drug addiction and domestic abuse on the part of his unfortunate fans. It is a sign of the decadent decline of the west that we accepted this while singing his hits in teenage karaoke bars.
Because of this valuable information I have decided to cancel my Amazon order of the 5 cd box set 'Yacht Rock - The Warner Years'.
Instead I shall luxuriate in his masterful folk rock interpretation of Tom Waits, 'Mandolin Wind' and that other one. I shall enjoy a glass of the finest Glenfiddich in front of my log fire as I do so.
Thank you BCB. :D

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 63022
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: Musical betrayals

Postby Diamond Dog » 05 Aug 2017, 15:35

The Modernist wrote:Thank you Pete. A quite wonderful post.
I believe his disco hits caused disjunctures in the frontal lobes of the brain leading to drug addiction and domestic abuse on the part of his unfortunate fans. It is a sign of the decadent decline of the west that we accepted this while singing his hits in teenage karaoke bars.
Because of this valuable information I have decided to cancel my Amazon order of the 5 cd box set 'Yacht Rock - The Warner Years'.
Instead I shall luxuriate in his masterful folk rock interpretation of Tom Waits, 'Mandolin Wind' and that other one. I shall enjoy a glass of the finest Glenfiddich in front of my log fire as I do so.
Thank you BCB. :D


Yes Frank. :D
Last edited by Diamond Dog on 05 Aug 2017, 16:46, edited 1 time in total.
David Duke wrote:“Thank you President Trump for your honesty & courage to tell the truth about #Charlottesville & condemn the leftist terrorists.”

Image

User avatar
take5_d_shorterer
Posts: 5543
Joined: 22 Sep 2003, 23:09
Location: photo. by Andor Kertesz, Hung.

Re: Musical betrayals

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 05 Aug 2017, 15:58

Diamond Dog wrote:I find it inconceivable that anyone can condone Rod from 80 onwards


I'd put it slightly differently as I would this whole discussion about "betrayal".

I don't really know what's going on in Rod Stewart's mind as a performer, but I have some idea what other people as listeners might be thinking.

Is there all that much difference between this



and this



in terms of how cringe-worthy they are. The songs aren't good, and the choreography is worse. Who instructed the bass player in Stewart's band to jump up and down like that while Stewart plays around with his microphone? It's the official video so this isn't some spontaneous concert footage. The dancing in "Do the Clam" isn't any better.

Presley's single didn't do that well, which is exactly what you'd expect, but Stewart's did phenomenally well. How did this happen? Rod Stewart looks like a character actor in movie about sea shanties. He doesn't look like pinup fodder. In addition, his voice doesn't really fit in with disco. And yet, people bought this. The fact that Stewart kept on going in this direction makes sense given that that's where the money was. The surprising thing is that there was any money in this at all.

User avatar
Moleskin
Posts: 13846
Joined: 18 Feb 2004, 12:38
Location: We began to notice that we could be free, And we moved together to the West.

Re: Musical betrayals

Postby Moleskin » 05 Aug 2017, 16:19

With Elvis, was it him or the colonel (and his unwillingness to gainsay or sack him) that was mostly to blame?
@hewsim
-the artist formerly known as comrade moleskin-
-the unforgettable waldo jeffers-

Jug Band Music
my own music

User avatar
Still Baron
Diamond Geezer
Posts: 41649
Joined: 18 Jul 2003, 05:38
Location: Nationwide

Re: Musical betrayals

Postby Still Baron » 05 Aug 2017, 16:34

I wonder whether Rod really "meant it" any more when he was with Jeff Beck or the Faces than when he was doing disco or whatever we think is unacceptable. Maybe he's always just been a feckless follower of fashion.
toomanyhatz wrote:I honestly don't care for most Beach Boys car songs

take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.

User avatar
neville harp
cultural defective
Posts: 13231
Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 00:32
Location: pivoting towards woke-ness

Re: Musical betrayals

Postby neville harp » 05 Aug 2017, 16:40

Perhaps he just meant to make some cash? Is that a betrayal or the correct use of talent?
Diamond Dog wrote:I can only suggest you check the FB thread The Prof started about us - and see how well you did in that me old china.


K wrote: (But I am happily married, John)


User avatar
Bride Of Sea Of Tunes
Posts: 17025
Joined: 17 Oct 2010, 14:10
Location: The Nether World

Re: Musical betrayals

Postby Bride Of Sea Of Tunes » 05 Aug 2017, 16:45

The Modernist wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:I find it inconceivable that anyone can condone Rod from 80 onwards - unlike Stevie Wonder ,who I actually believe thought he was still making good music (even if it was crap) , Rod knew fully well he was producing shoddy second rate shit.

And lapped it up and gave up trying.

Forever.


Thank you Pete. A quite wonderful post.
I believe his disco hits caused disjunctures in the frontal lobes of the brain leading to drug addiction and domestic abuse on the part of his unfortunate fans. It is a sign of the decadent decline of the west that we accepted this while singing his hits in teenage karaoke bars.
Because of this valuable information I have decided to cancel my Amazon order of the 5 cd box set 'Yacht Rock - The Warner Years'.
Instead I shall luxuriate in his masterful folk rock interpretation of Tom Waits, 'Mandolin Wind' and that other one. I shall enjoy a glass of the finest Glenfiddich in front of my log fire as I do so.
Thank you BCB. :D


:lol:

Superb!
The invisible and the non-existing very much look alike.

User avatar
Diamond Dog
"Self Quoter" Extraordinaire.
Posts: 63022
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 21:04
Location: High On Poachers Hill

Re: Musical betrayals

Postby Diamond Dog » 05 Aug 2017, 16:50

take5_d_shorterer wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:I find it inconceivable that anyone can condone Rod from 80 onwards


take5_d_shorterer wrote:I'd put it slightly differently as I would this whole discussion about "betrayal".

I don't really know what's going on in Rod Stewart's mind as a performer, but I have some idea what other people as listeners might be thinking.



Absolutely Ken. But I think we can safely say Rod didn't believe he was pushing the barriers of the artform when he released "Baby Jane" or "Do You Think I'm sexy" or "Young Turks".....
David Duke wrote:“Thank you President Trump for your honesty & courage to tell the truth about #Charlottesville & condemn the leftist terrorists.”

Image


Return to “Yakety Yak”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 3 guests