Neil Diamond vs. Jimmy Buffet

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Neil Diamond vs. Jimmy Buffet

Postby Quaco » 13 Jul 2017, 04:32

Compare and contrast.

They're both inane much of the time.

We unthinkingly say that Neil knows what he's doing, or we give him a pass because The Monkees covered one of his songs. But really? 'Crunchy Granola Suite', 'Porcupine Pie', 'Soggy Pretzels', 'Brother Love's Traveling Salvation Show' ... ?

What the fuck with these guys?
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Re: Neil Diamond vs. Jimmy Buffet

Postby Still Baron » 13 Jul 2017, 04:55

Neil Diamond has, at the very least, written some noteworthy songs. Jimmy Buffet has fans who call themselves Parrotheads.

I like to stick up for Ugly American Funtime Anti-Snob stuff around here because someone has to and I like some objectively bad things. But Buffet is a bridge too far.
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Re: Neil Diamond vs. Jimmy Buffet

Postby Quaco » 13 Jul 2017, 04:57

Basically I agree, but my god, ND is a blowhard with atrocious song ideas sometimes. A song about granola. Almost Guru Guru levels of bizarreness sometimes.
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Re: Neil Diamond vs. Jimmy Buffet

Postby Quaco » 13 Jul 2017, 04:59

By the way, I kinda got into Beautiful Noise when it came out. Something about it struck me, at 12 years old. It seemed like a good coherent piece of work.

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Re: Neil Diamond vs. Jimmy Buffet

Postby toomanyhatz » 13 Jul 2017, 05:42

Neil Diamond's Bang stuff is great. Buffett has no similar 'winning' period with which to compare. I own a ND box set and, yes, I rarely go past the first disc. But unless I'm missing something great (I'm sure someone will let me know) I have no interest in owning anything by Buffett.
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Re: Neil Diamond vs. Jimmy Buffet

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 13 Jul 2017, 06:55

Quaco wrote:By the way, I kinda got into Beautiful Noise when it came out. Something about it struck me, at 12 years old. It seemed like a good coherent piece of work.

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I love that he gave Robbie Robertson the largest-ever producer credit. Always felt like he was begging for credibility.

But this matchup isn't a contest. Diamond wrote a bunch of great songs before he felt the need to try to be a poet of some kind.
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Re: Neil Diamond vs. Jimmy Buffet

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 13 Jul 2017, 06:55

toomanyhatz wrote:Neil Diamond's Bang stuff is great. Buffett has no similar 'winning' period with which to compare. I own a ND box set and, yes, I rarely go past the first disc. But unless I'm missing something great (I'm sure someone will let me know) I have no interest in owning anything by Buffett.



There are a few good songs.
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Re: Neil Diamond vs. Jimmy Buffet

Postby Bent Fabric » 13 Jul 2017, 08:17

Quaco wrote: 'Brother Love's Traveling Salvation Show'


I love that one. Had it in my box of 45s when I DJed tonight.

I know it's jive as fuck. I know HE'S jive as fuck, but...sometimes his jiveness works for me.

Blowhard?

Yes, of course. A real life David Brent in many ways.

And yet...'Solitary Man' (basically Forever Changes a year ahead of schedule - re: overall sound and feel), 'Shilo', 'Girl, You'll Be a Woman Soon', 'I Am, I Said', 'Love to Love'. I think he's a motherfucker (at his best). The bridge to 'Kentucky Woman' doesn't necessarily dazzle, but it seems like a good exemplar of why we describe him as "someone who knows his shit."

The drop off between "stuff I love" and "stuff I can't stomach" is massive with him (and there isn't much in the middle).

I've seen a lot of concerts in my lifetime, and he's right up there with anyone - all time top 5. For lack of any better way to say it, "he puts out". Fucking "You Don't Bring Me Flowers" was quite moving when I saw him.

There's an inherent dark musicality to his best work that I really dig (and a kind of generally "making a lot out of some plain Jane chords" simplicity that I deeply admire).

What has Buffett EVER done for me?

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Re: Neil Diamond vs. Jimmy Buffet

Postby fange » 13 Jul 2017, 08:35

Diamond, easily. A good compilation is all i'll ever need, that's for sure - the Salvation Army bins were full of his albums proper in the '90s, and after trying out a few 70s and 80s ones they pretty much went straight back to the store - but some of those early songs can still delight me; rock-solid bricks 'n mortar songwriting, and that winning Brill building sound. 'Cherry Cherry', 'Solitary Man', 'Shilo', 'Sweet Caroline', 'Thank The Lord For The Night Time' - beats Buffet.
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Re: Neil Diamond vs. Jimmy Buffet

Postby Quaco » 13 Jul 2017, 08:41

Yeah, you guys are probably right. Probably a better match would be Andy Kim.
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Re: Neil Diamond vs. Jimmy Buffet

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 13 Jul 2017, 08:49

I don't think there's a Jimmy Buffet track as great as this one to be found.

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Re: Neil Diamond vs. Jimmy Buffet

Postby Walk In My Shadow » 13 Jul 2017, 10:18

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Rick Rubin made this good.
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Re: Neil Diamond vs. Jimmy Buffet

Postby Muskrat » 14 Jul 2017, 04:05

Davey the Fat Boy wrote:

I love that he gave Robbie Robertson the largest-ever producer credit. Always felt like he was begging for credibility.

Take a look at James William Guercio's credits on albums by Chicago, Nitty Gritty Dirt Bandad some others.

Diamond was a commercial songwriter with literary aspirations that he often couldn't keep up with. Brother Love was written specifically as a climactic number for his live show; as such, I'd say it works terrifically.

Buffett is more of a literary type who got into music; found a gimmick; and rides it for all it's worth -- which is plenty. Between the two, I'd rather listen to/see Buffett -- particularly if I didn't have to put up with his fans. On the other hand, he never wrote a "Solitary Man" or "Holly Holy" (whatever that one's about.)
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Re: Neil Diamond vs. Jimmy Buffet

Postby Quaco » 14 Jul 2017, 04:57

Muskrat wrote:Buffett is more of a literary type who got into music; found a gimmick; and rides it for all it's worth -- which is plenty. Between the two, I'd rather listen to/see Buffett

Seriously, if you ever go, I'd love to join you.
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Re: Neil Diamond vs. Jimmy Buffet

Postby Muskrat » 14 Jul 2017, 05:04

Not likely (my going); I avoid big venues/high ticket prices. But I've seen him several times and like him a lot. Most memorable of the Diamond shows I've seen was the night he whined that Dustin Hoffman got the part he wanted, as "Lenny."
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Re: Neil Diamond vs. Jimmy Buffet

Postby Quaco » 14 Jul 2017, 05:05

:)
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Re: Neil Diamond vs. Jimmy Buffet

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 14 Jul 2017, 05:12

Quaco wrote:
Muskrat wrote:Buffett is more of a literary type who got into music; found a gimmick; and rides it for all it's worth -- which is plenty. Between the two, I'd rather listen to/see Buffett

Seriously, if you ever go, I'd love to join you.


I've seen both.
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Re: Neil Diamond vs. Jimmy Buffet

Postby Matt Wilson » 14 Jul 2017, 18:54

I don't mind Jimmy Buffet at all. I was telling Jim this on fb a week or so ago. I've got several of his CDs and even though I don't play them I could still make a decent 12 - 20 song compilation if called on. The Changes in Latitudes, Changes in Attitudes LP is actually pretty good.
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Re: Neil Diamond vs. Jimmy Buffet

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 14 Jul 2017, 19:52

Matt Wilson wrote:I don't mind Jimmy Buffet at all. I was telling Jim this on fb a week or so ago. I've got several of his CDs and even though I don't play them I could still make a decent 12 - 20 song compilation if called on. The Changes in Latitudes, Changes in Attitudes LP is actually pretty good.


Yeah...that a pretty decent album. It was also pretty far into his career - as he'd recorded several earlier albums. I wouldn't make any great claims for them, but they weren't without promise. He was a pretty good songwriter early on, and as he went on he helped a lot of other songwriters make a living by covering the likes of Steve Goodman and Willis Alan Ramsey.

His first album (Down to Earth) in 1970 actually showed him to have some inclination towards writing like Mike Nesmith, Kinky Friedman and Hoyt Alton. This one could have been written by any of those guys:



This is probably his best song:



Here's a hit that I actually like a lot:



A few other pretty good ones:







All in all - a bit more than just the joke he's been made out to be.
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Re: Neil Diamond vs. Jimmy Buffet

Postby kath » 14 Jul 2017, 20:49

jimmy buffett has a few songs i like, but i will go with neil. the second, and last, concert my dad took me to see when i was a kid. (the carpenters was the first.) soft spots being what they are...


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