Your 5 favourite 'punk' songs

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clive gash
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Re: Your 5 favourite 'punk' songs

Postby clive gash » 07 Mar 2019, 21:50

Fave 5 Frat Boy Punk from the 80s:









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Re: Your 5 favourite 'punk' songs

Postby fange » 08 Mar 2019, 00:57

The Modernist wrote:Punk wasn't needed in 1986. It was backward looking and reactionary. And was dismissed as such.
Let's be honest if half the frat boy mid 80s US punk that is being extolled on here had been released by GBH or Anti Nowhere League a few years before then you lot wouldn't be interested in it.

BOB WHELK wrote:I'm with G. He's much more clear-eyed than most of you when it comes to this stuff.


Clear-eyed? Nah, G is one of those with the biggest rose-coloured glasses on when it comes to this stuff. Saying punk wasn't needed after '78 or something is way too simplistic, and a bit cliched to be honest, the kind of thing said by critics whose views on music gets trapped in some kind of musical amber.
I'm not saying all punk after the first generation is great - like all genres it has heaps of mediocre stuff - but the best stuff to come out of the US, Australia, Latin America, Scandinavia, Japan, etc is full of inspiration and musical goodness and all about guys and girls finding their voices through music. THAT is "needed" in my book, essential in fact.
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Re: Your 5 favourite 'punk' songs

Postby pcqgod » 08 Mar 2019, 04:06

Looks like I never gave a serious answer here, so...

"No Values" Black Flag
"Beef Baloney" FEAR
"Coff's Harbour Blues" Hard-Ons
"Whatever Happened To?" Buzzcocks
"Louie, Louie" Swamp Rats
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Re: Your 5 favourite 'punk' songs

Postby The Modernist » 08 Mar 2019, 12:02

fange wrote:
The Modernist wrote:Punk wasn't needed in 1986. It was backward looking and reactionary. And was dismissed as such.
Let's be honest if half the frat boy mid 80s US punk that is being extolled on here had been released by GBH or Anti Nowhere League a few years before then you lot wouldn't be interested in it.

BOB WHELK wrote:I'm with G. He's much more clear-eyed than most of you when it comes to this stuff.


Clear-eyed? Nah, G is one of those with the biggest rose-coloured glasses on when it comes to this stuff. Saying punk wasn't needed after '78 or something is way too simplistic, and a bit cliched to be honest, the kind of thing said by critics whose views on music gets trapped in some kind of musical amber.
I'm not saying all punk after the first generation is great - like all genres it has heaps of mediocre stuff - but the best stuff to come out of the US, Australia, Latin America, Scandinavia, Japan, etc is full of inspiration and musical goodness and all about guys and girls finding their voices through music. THAT is "needed" in my book, essential in fact.


There may be some highlights there, I'm sure there are, but generally this stuff is vastly overrated on BCB, always has been. And the reason for that is simple, it was the music many first got into in their mid teens as some kind of rebellion thing. It's easy music to get into for teenage boys - it's loud, aggressive and appears to be saying "something" (which is contrasted, in kid's minds, with the perceived emptiness of mainstream pop).
Contrary to what some might think, I'm not blind to how something like that might appeal, it's why I loved Theatre of Hate when I was 16. My difficulty is more with the uncritical extolling of it now..the 80s cup has been full of this stuff. Some general points:

- It seems excessively male. This is why I guess whenever I raise any criticisms, I'm met with barbs that I am somehow less than masculine for not appreciating it or that I'm "scared" by it in some way. But guess what? Listening to Black Flag won't turn you into Mike Tyson. Perhaps this is the reason why the whole US hardcore scene was such a boy's club. Unlike the original punk which produced strong female characters like Siouxsie, Poly Styrene, Pauline Murray, Viv Albertine and many more, those figures are conspicuous by their absence here. They were excluded by the rigid adherence to some narrow machismo of thrashy, sweaty aggression.
- Which brings me onto my second point, this is music working from such a narrow template that a lot of the records are formulaic and interchangeable. Feel overrides songwriting to such a degree that it is difficult to find distinctive songs - where are the equivalents of "Boredom", "Shot by Both Sides" or "Complete Control"? To a certain degree this was a problem with the original punk, but that's why it evolved so quickly into post-punk.

Yours with respect G.

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Re: Your 5 favourite 'punk' songs

Postby Penk! » 08 Mar 2019, 12:04

I actually side with G on the punk thing, there's very little from after about 1980 that's worthwhile.

My point is that he tends to take the same stance on almost anything at all with loud guitars!
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Re: Your 5 favourite 'punk' songs

Postby The Modernist » 08 Mar 2019, 12:09

PENK wrote:I actually side with G on the punk thing, there's very little from after about 1980 that's worthwhile.

My point is that he tends to take the same stance on almost anything at all with loud guitars!


Not true..I've actually praised some of the loud selections in the 80s cup. I can give you the links if you like! :)

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Re: Your 5 favourite 'punk' songs

Postby Penk! » 08 Mar 2019, 12:13

The ones from 1980 probably!
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Re: Your 5 favourite 'punk' songs

Postby fange » 08 Mar 2019, 13:02

:D

Punk is male dominated, sure, but apart from the basic pop/rock field and maybe country, this is not unusual. Jazz, electronic, metal and hard rock, all were historically largely the same. Anyway, we can agree to disagree about these things, coz even if I suggest that bands like Descendants, Replacements, X, Nirvana, Sleater-Kinney, Refused, etc. wrote some great songs you definitely aren't going to change your mind. :)
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Re: Your 5 favourite 'punk' songs

Postby Robert » 08 Mar 2019, 13:11

PENK wrote:I actually side with G on the punk thing, there's very little from after about 1980 that's worthwhile.

My point is that he tends to take the same stance on almost anything at all with loud guitars!



Yes I do too and also about there being no need for it in 1986, nevermind now.

In 76/77 it blew much-needed air into a music scene that at that time, with a few exceptions, was mostly overblown shit. Punk gave freedom to evolve into post-punk/ new wave. Apart from the music, Punk was not just about the music was an expression of a general mindset of breaking with the past and the powers that be and created freedom to cross borders. The endless repeats of the archetypical Punk song template, actually, is as anti-punk
as possible.

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Re: Your 5 favourite 'punk' songs

Postby The Modernist » 08 Mar 2019, 13:16

fange wrote::D

Punk is male dominated, sure, but apart from the basic pop/rock field and maybe country, this is not unusual. Jazz, electronic, metal and hard rock, all were historically largely the same.


I think you've rather conveniently chosen to miss the point there, the original punk did provide opportunities for females.
fange wrote: Anyway, we can agree to disagree about these things, coz even if I suggest that bands like Descendants, Replacements, X, Nirvana, Sleater-Kinney, Refused, etc. wrote some great songs you definitely aren't going to change your mind. :)


A rather eclectic list! I'm talking more of the bands that came out of hardcore punk and thrash, rather than X or The Replacements, who seem to be something else entirely.
Why did Nirvana make it so big? Because they had one obvious, but important, insight - that they could differentiate themselves from all the other bands by adding tunes to that sound.

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Re: Your 5 favourite 'punk' songs

Postby The Modernist » 08 Mar 2019, 13:22

Robert wrote:
PENK wrote:I actually side with G on the punk thing, there's very little from after about 1980 that's worthwhile.

My point is that he tends to take the same stance on almost anything at all with loud guitars!



Yes I do too and also about there being no need for it in 1986, nevermind now.

In 76/77 it blew much-needed air into a music scene that at that time, with a few exceptions, was mostly overblown shit. Punk gave freedom to evolve into post-punk/ new wave. Apart from the music, Punk was not just about the music was an expression of a general mindset of breaking with the past and the powers that be and created freedom to cross borders. The endless repeats of the archetypical Punk song template, actually, is as anti-punk
as possible.


Well said.

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Re: Your 5 favourite 'punk' songs

Postby fange » 08 Mar 2019, 13:24

Exene Cervenka, Joan Jett, Lydia Lunch, Patti Smith, Poison Ivy … of course the US had strong punk women! And X and the Replacements DID come out of punk, whether you think so or not, G. :lol:

How do you feel about Green Day?
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Re: Your 5 favourite 'punk' songs

Postby Darkness_Fish » 08 Mar 2019, 13:29

The Modernist wrote:- It seems excessively male. This is why I guess whenever I raise any criticisms, I'm met with barbs that I am somehow less than masculine for not appreciating it or that I'm "scared" by it in some way. But guess what? Listening to Black Flag won't turn you into Mike Tyson.

This seems entirely wrong to me. You're saying that on this site, people are equating U.S. punk with masculinity, and attacking you for not being man enough to listen to it? That's bollocks, isn't it?
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Re: Your 5 favourite 'punk' songs

Postby The Modernist » 08 Mar 2019, 13:33

Darkness_Fish wrote:
The Modernist wrote:- It seems excessively male. This is why I guess whenever I raise any criticisms, I'm met with barbs that I am somehow less than masculine for not appreciating it or that I'm "scared" by it in some way. But guess what? Listening to Black Flag won't turn you into Mike Tyson.

This seems entirely wrong to me. You're saying that on this site, people are equating U.S. punk with masculinity, and attacking you for not being man enough to listen to it? That's bollocks, isn't it?


Oh I've had that many a time, believe me. It's usually said in a humorous way, but there's an interesting sub-text there.

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Re: Your 5 favourite 'punk' songs

Postby Darkness_Fish » 08 Mar 2019, 13:34

The Modernist wrote:
Darkness_Fish wrote:
The Modernist wrote:- It seems excessively male. This is why I guess whenever I raise any criticisms, I'm met with barbs that I am somehow less than masculine for not appreciating it or that I'm "scared" by it in some way. But guess what? Listening to Black Flag won't turn you into Mike Tyson.

This seems entirely wrong to me. You're saying that on this site, people are equating U.S. punk with masculinity, and attacking you for not being man enough to listen to it? That's bollocks, isn't it?


Oh I've had that many a time, believe me. It's usually said in a humorous way, but there's an interesting sub-text there.

Poof.


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Re: Your 5 favourite 'punk' songs

Postby Darkness_Fish » 08 Mar 2019, 13:35

Didn't even get my homophobic abuse correct at first go :-(

Anyway, to convert this crap post into something cleverer, much of the big 80s U.S. punk wasn't particularly macho was it. Husker Du certainly wouldn't fit the frat-boy stereotype, and if Bad Religion were part of a fraternity, it was so that they could have the resources, support, and a quiet place to study.
Last edited by Darkness_Fish on 08 Mar 2019, 13:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Your 5 favourite 'punk' songs

Postby fange » 08 Mar 2019, 13:37

The Modernist wrote:Oh I've had that many a time, believe me. It's usually said in a humorous way, but there's an interesting sub-text there.


I've never implied anything of the sort! :lol:
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Re: Your 5 favourite 'punk' songs

Postby The Modernist » 08 Mar 2019, 13:39

fange wrote:Exene Cervenka, Joan Jett, Lydia Lunch, Patti Smith, Poison Ivy …?


None of whom came out of the scene we're talking about - in fact, the fact they all pre-date it substantiates my point.
Who else are you going to claim for US hardcore? How about Patsy Cline?


*

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Re: Your 5 favourite 'punk' songs

Postby The Modernist » 08 Mar 2019, 13:40

fange wrote:
The Modernist wrote:Oh I've had that many a time, believe me. It's usually said in a humorous way, but there's an interesting sub-text there.


I've never implied anything of the sort! :lol:


No you haven't, but it's something I've read a lot of over the years (not purely directed at me I should add)

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Re: Your 5 favourite 'punk' songs

Postby The Modernist » 08 Mar 2019, 13:45

Darkness_Fish wrote:Didn't even get my homophobic abuse correct at first go :-(

Anyway, to convert this crap post into something cleverer, much of the big 80s U.S. punk wasn't particularly macho was it.


Lyrically no, but in terms of its vibe and musical language I'd say it was. Look at at someone like Henry Rollins.