Crimso v The Softs

Do talk back

Well...?

Crimso
13
59%
The Softs
9
41%
 
Total votes: 22

Hightea
Posts: 606
Joined: 16 Apr 2015, 02:18
Location: NY state

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby Hightea » 01 May 2017, 21:14

Breef wrote:I've never really understood the across-the-board love for KC's debut album. The cover is amazing but stuff like '21st Century Schizoid Man' is just terrible, sputtering on and on and on, even worse than Black Sabbath. At least they didn't try to 'fuse' classical music and rock.

I'm reminded of what Baron said about the talentless often making the best music. Or what Mark E Smith often says about keeping the middle classes out of rock.

I just found this on Wiki - Fripp 'explaning' his solo:

The basis of the picking technique is to strike down on the on-beat and up on the off-beat. Then one must learn to reverse that. I'll generally use a downstroke on the down-beat except where I wish to accent a phrase in a particular way or create a certain kind of tension by confusing accents, in which case I might begin a run on the upstroke

'one'! what an utter cunt that man is. It's a fucking solo for Christ's sake man you tiresome old cock.



I'm so sick of this BS. Who the F*ck stated that rock music is only good if its fun to play, based on rockabilly, folk or blues? Rock can and is also based on Jazz and classical too. If you don't like it move on. But to claim this BS about classical shouldn't be in Rock music or middle class can't be involved in rock music what a load of punk shit? There are plenty of us who don't just want to hear ABC rock its called evolving. In kindergarten we were reading see spot run and thought it was fun, but we grew up and started reading something a little more interesting. Same goes for my rock - started playing simple cords then we wanted something a little more interesting and seeing what types of sound we can get out of an instrument its called experimenting.

Go back to your poor man's rock and leave the good music to us middle class listeners you putz. :evil:

User avatar
Quaco
F R double E
Posts: 45310
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 19:41

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby Quaco » 01 May 2017, 21:15

bobzilla77 wrote:Do you go to the pilot on a plane and say "you think you're so cool with your dials, and meters, and nibnobs, all that blink blink and beep beep beep, just fucking fly the stupid cunting thing you moron?"

:lol:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

User avatar
Quaco
F R double E
Posts: 45310
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 19:41

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby Quaco » 01 May 2017, 21:16

Breef wrote:
Quaco wrote:
Breef wrote:The Softs were wonderful for a short period - those early singles are almost as wildly inventive as Syd's stuff with The Pink Floyd.

Which singles are you talking about? "Love Makes Sweet Music" is wildly inventive? You're just making up a history for them so you can make your point!


That one, and (especially) 'Feelin' Reelin' Squeelin'', which is nuts!

It is! Love it!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

User avatar
Quaco
F R double E
Posts: 45310
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 19:41

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby Quaco » 01 May 2017, 21:19

bobzilla77 wrote:I've tried with Soft Machine, it just doesn't seem to do it for me. Maybe it's one of those bands I'm saving for my old age - something I can get into discovering when I'm seventy. I do LIKE and RESPECT them and the musicianship is clearly top notch, but I rarely feel like, "that's what I want to listen to right now".

The Soft Machine that I revere isn't much about top-notch musicianship. Only Ratledge seemed to have a lot of chops. Allen, Wyatt and Ayers were purely beat-combo-level. Hoppper was maybe in the middle.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

User avatar
algroth
Posts: 4623
Joined: 04 Apr 2010, 03:12

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby algroth » 01 May 2017, 21:24

Hightea wrote:
Breef wrote:I've never really understood the across-the-board love for KC's debut album. The cover is amazing but stuff like '21st Century Schizoid Man' is just terrible, sputtering on and on and on, even worse than Black Sabbath. At least they didn't try to 'fuse' classical music and rock.

I'm reminded of what Baron said about the talentless often making the best music. Or what Mark E Smith often says about keeping the middle classes out of rock.

I just found this on Wiki - Fripp 'explaning' his solo:

The basis of the picking technique is to strike down on the on-beat and up on the off-beat. Then one must learn to reverse that. I'll generally use a downstroke on the down-beat except where I wish to accent a phrase in a particular way or create a certain kind of tension by confusing accents, in which case I might begin a run on the upstroke

'one'! what an utter cunt that man is. It's a fucking solo for Christ's sake man you tiresome old cock.



I'm so sick of this BS. Who the F*ck stated that rock music is only good if its fun to play, based on rockabilly, folk or blues? Rock can and is also based on Jazz and classical too. If you don't like it move on. But to claim this BS about classical shouldn't be in Rock music or middle class can't be involved in rock music what a load of punk shit? There are plenty of us who don't just want to hear ABC rock its called evolving. In kindergarten we were reading see spot run and thought it was fun, but we grew up and started reading something a little more interesting. Same goes for my rock - started playing simple cords then we wanted something a little more interesting and seeing what types of sound we can get out of an instrument its called experimenting.

Go back to your poor man's rock and leave the good music to us middle class listeners you putz. :evil:


Hear hear! Also will add, who said playing jazz or classical, or jamming whilst using these as influences, isn't fun? Fuck, as a musician I'd much rather jam my heart out for 40 minutes straight than play the same square song again and again. I'd rather find something new by mixing this and that than remain tied to the dogmas that "academic" or "popular" music should remain "pure". Are we back in the 19th century or something? Fuck that shit.

User avatar
'O'
hounds people off the board
Posts: 12208
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby 'O' » 01 May 2017, 21:39

bobzilla77 wrote:Do you go to the pilot on a plane and say "you think you're so cool with your dials, and meters, and nibnobs, all that blink blink and beep beep beep, just fucking fly the stupid cunting thing you moron?"


If he's supposed to be flying it and he turns around and says 'look what I can make it do! I can make it spin around really really fast! and I can make it do loop the loop!', then YES I'd tell him to stop fucking around!
Jimbo wrote:I shake my head here at how pettily you behave, how narrowly you think, at your black and white view of current events

User avatar
Quaco
F R double E
Posts: 45310
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 19:41

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby Quaco » 01 May 2017, 21:40

algroth wrote:
Hightea wrote:
Breef wrote:I've never really understood the across-the-board love for KC's debut album. The cover is amazing but stuff like '21st Century Schizoid Man' is just terrible, sputtering on and on and on, even worse than Black Sabbath. At least they didn't try to 'fuse' classical music and rock.

I'm reminded of what Baron said about the talentless often making the best music. Or what Mark E Smith often says about keeping the middle classes out of rock.

I just found this on Wiki - Fripp 'explaning' his solo:

The basis of the picking technique is to strike down on the on-beat and up on the off-beat. Then one must learn to reverse that. I'll generally use a downstroke on the down-beat except where I wish to accent a phrase in a particular way or create a certain kind of tension by confusing accents, in which case I might begin a run on the upstroke

'one'! what an utter cunt that man is. It's a fucking solo for Christ's sake man you tiresome old cock.



I'm so sick of this BS. Who the F*ck stated that rock music is only good if its fun to play, based on rockabilly, folk or blues? Rock can and is also based on Jazz and classical too. If you don't like it move on. But to claim this BS about classical shouldn't be in Rock music or middle class can't be involved in rock music what a load of punk shit? There are plenty of us who don't just want to hear ABC rock its called evolving. In kindergarten we were reading see spot run and thought it was fun, but we grew up and started reading something a little more interesting. Same goes for my rock - started playing simple cords then we wanted something a little more interesting and seeing what types of sound we can get out of an instrument its called experimenting.

Go back to your poor man's rock and leave the good music to us middle class listeners you putz. :evil:


Hear hear! Also will add, who said playing jazz or classical, or jamming whilst using these as influences, isn't fun? Fuck, as a musician I'd much rather jam my heart out for 40 minutes straight than play the same square song again and again. I'd rather find something new by mixing this and that than remain tied to the dogmas that "academic" or "popular" music should remain "pure". Are we back in the 19th century or something? Fuck that shit.

Well, it was Fripp who said "Discipline is a vehicle for joy." Surprisingly, he was not discussing sadomasochism, though some non-fans may disagree. I think he meant that knowing all the technical aspects of playing allows you to play anything you hear, just as someone with a great vocabulary can express themselves eloquently no matter how drunk they get.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

User avatar
Quaco
F R double E
Posts: 45310
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 19:41

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby Quaco » 01 May 2017, 21:42

Breef wrote:
bobzilla77 wrote:Do you go to the pilot on a plane and say "you think you're so cool with your dials, and meters, and nibnobs, all that blink blink and beep beep beep, just fucking fly the stupid cunting thing you moron?"


If he's supposed to be flying it and he turns around and says 'look what I can make it do! I can make it spin around really really fast! and I can make it do loop the loop!', then YES I'd tell him to stop fucking around!

Fripp was being asked about his technique in Guitar Player magazine!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

User avatar
'O'
hounds people off the board
Posts: 12208
Joined: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby 'O' » 01 May 2017, 21:44

Oh, whatever.

Enjoy your noodling!
Jimbo wrote:I shake my head here at how pettily you behave, how narrowly you think, at your black and white view of current events

User avatar
toomanyhatz
Power-mad king of the WCC
Posts: 25124
Joined: 07 Apr 2005, 00:01
Location: Just east of where Charlie Parker went to do some relaxin'

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby toomanyhatz » 01 May 2017, 21:47

Oh dear.

To me, it's naught to do with how 'formalist' something is - the Softs have roots in jazz and classical just as sure as the Crimsos do, but they make music that, to me, is a lot more fun. And there's a lot of music that's as lowbrow as it gets - you can start with 90% of what was released between 1978-1988 - that's also devoid of any kind of spark. I'm uncomfortable with any "rules" about what something should or shouldn't be, but I totally understand finding Fripp humorless and stodgy. My only rule is that if it's "work" to like, it's probably not worth it. One man's ceiling, broad church, etc.
Jimbo wrote:A discredited and shady online publication which gets its information straight from Vladmir Putin himself has accused our hometown good boy Toomanyhatz of belonging to an online band of junkies and McDonald's eaters.
.
1959 1963 1965 1981 1988 2017?

User avatar
Quaco
F R double E
Posts: 45310
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 19:41

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby Quaco » 01 May 2017, 21:53

Robert Wyatt when asked why he seemed to have escaped the wrath of the punk movement more than most other '70s progressive musicians: "I was uncomfortable with the idea that there was this kind of superior, more polished version of pop music. As I said before, I don't really believe in that. I'd listened to the poshest music in the world since I was a child, and I still loved The Everly Brothers and Duane Eddy and all that. I didn't like the idea of reintroducing the class system within pop music, which is intrinsically accessible. I was uncomfortable with that. Maybe one reason [I escaped the punks' wrath], I never got rich. I was saved from the corruption of richness by having a totally crooked manager!"
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

User avatar
clive gash
Thanks Kate - I love it
Posts: 12193
Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 00:32
Location: standing around, exchanging tales and mischief...

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby clive gash » 01 May 2017, 22:15

Fripp's like big nose from the 'oo or David Byrne. The more thought you feel (or usually, have been told) has been put into the work, the drier and un-swinging the thing is.

Wyatt slips down beautifully, just lovely odd-England.

Speaking of Talking Heads, what was their response to Crimso II's "homage"?
Diamond Dog wrote:I'd like to say I;d never resort to bombs - but I;m not sure I can ever truly 'walk in those shoes'?


Diamond Dog wrote:I do find the inclusion of women unsavoury, I must confess.



(meme here)

User avatar
pcqgod
Posts: 14972
Joined: 11 Apr 2010, 07:23
Location: Texas

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby pcqgod » 01 May 2017, 22:26

I reflexively voted for KC, but I can see me listening to SM more often in the future, since a lot of it is still new to me. Later SM is honest, pure fusion with great musicianship. Worst you can say about it is it can get bland, but I think the same of the best fusion. KC provide more visceral, head-banging thrills, but sometimes I just need to hear good musicians play.
Where would rock 'n' roll be without feedback?

User avatar
soundchaser
Rokster & Rollster
Posts: 7424
Joined: 20 Jun 2006, 10:55

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby soundchaser » 01 May 2017, 22:37

pcqgod wrote:I reflexively voted for KC, but I can see me listening to SM more often in the future, since a lot of it is still new to me. Later SM is honest, pure fusion with great musicianship. Worst you can say about it is it can get bland, but I think the same of the best fusion. KC provide more visceral, head-banging thrills, but sometimes I just need to hear good musicians play.


Good musicians, will always win out.

User avatar
algroth
Posts: 4623
Joined: 04 Apr 2010, 03:12

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby algroth » 01 May 2017, 22:47

I would seriously debate the claim that Soft Machine's players are individually better musicians than those who've been through Crimso. I mean, you take the likes of Fripp, Bill Brufford, Mike Giles, Tony Levin, John Wetton and more, and these all rank on the highest tier of their respective instruments, rock or otherwise. Personally I like hearing good musicians play but in this regard Crimso wins out, because they play with notes as much as textures and ideas.
Last edited by algroth on 01 May 2017, 23:59, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Quaco
F R double E
Posts: 45310
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 19:41

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby Quaco » 01 May 2017, 22:51

clive gash wrote:Fripp's like big nose from the 'oo or David Byrne. The more thought you feel (or usually, have been told) has been put into the work, the drier and un-swinging the thing is.

I just listened to Big Nose's work on Dayton, Ohio, August 1971, playing stuff from the ridiculously over-thought-about Lifehouse concept, and have determined your point has no validity.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

User avatar
soundchaser
Rokster & Rollster
Posts: 7424
Joined: 20 Jun 2006, 10:55

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby soundchaser » 01 May 2017, 22:53

algroth wrote:I would seriously debate the claim that Soft Machine's players are individually better musicians than those who've been through Crimso. I mean, you take the likes of Fripp, Bill Brufford, Mike Giles, Tony Levin, John Wetton and more, and these all rank on the highest tier of their respective instruments, rock or otherwise. Personally I like hearding good musicians play but in this regard Crimso wins out, because they play with notes as much as textures and ideas.


I agree. Excellent musicians in both bands, but Crimson wins. Saying that, we music fans are the real winners.

User avatar
frimley_greener
Posts: 1365
Joined: 10 Apr 2010, 10:00
Location: frimley green..and it ain't easy being green...

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby frimley_greener » 02 May 2017, 06:54

I am not qualified to deliver on the respective merits of each band with regard to instrument proficiency...but the one thing K.C lack(that the Softs had in bundles) is wit.
See what I did there?
You wanna be a big cop in a small town? Fuck off up the model village.

User avatar
ConnyOlivetti
Probing The Sonic Heritage
Posts: 9521
Joined: 06 Nov 2003, 07:14
Location: Below The North Pole
Contact:

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby ConnyOlivetti » 02 May 2017, 11:18

frimley_greener wrote:I am not qualified to deliver on the respective merits of each band with regard to instrument proficiency...but the one thing K.C lack(that the Softs had in bundles) is wit.
See what I did there?


If you are talking about humor/humour,
I really like Fripps. ( on the dry side perhaps, but so is mine) :)
never/ever wrote:the BCB-universe...may it continue to piss Coan off ad infinitum.


Un enfant dans electronica!
Je suis!

User avatar
pcqgod
Posts: 14972
Joined: 11 Apr 2010, 07:23
Location: Texas

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby pcqgod » 02 May 2017, 15:32

algroth wrote:I would seriously debate the claim that Soft Machine's players are individually better musicians than those who've been through Crimso. I mean, you take the likes of Fripp, Bill Brufford, Mike Giles, Tony Levin, John Wetton and more, and these all rank on the highest tier of their respective instruments, rock or otherwise. Personally I like hearing good musicians play but in this regard Crimso wins out, because they play with notes as much as textures and ideas.


I didn't mean to suggest that Softs were necessarily better musicians. KC has obviously had amazing musicians in its ranks throughout its history. My point was more about how later Soft Machine albums are basically pure, instrumental jazz-rock, and more and more I'm in the mood to hear expertly performed instrumental rock without the need for power chords, bombast and (often silly) lyrics.
Where would rock 'n' roll be without feedback?


Return to “Yakety Yak”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Six String, Yahoo [Bot] and 3 guests