Crimso v The Softs

Do talk back

Well...?

Crimso
13
59%
The Softs
9
41%
 
Total votes: 22

User avatar
C
Robust
Posts: 47950
Joined: 22 Jul 2003, 19:06

Crimso v The Softs

Postby C » 28 Apr 2017, 15:58

Why?



Incidentally, in case you haven't seen this

http://www.elephant-talk.com/wiki/FAQ_- ... imson_Past









.
neville harp wrote:God bless you brother C x

User avatar
algroth
Posts: 4923
Joined: 04 Apr 2010, 03:12

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby algroth » 28 Apr 2017, 16:18

Between Crimso and the Softs I'll take Crimso, but between Fripp and Wyatt I'll take Wyatt.

User avatar
C
Robust
Posts: 47950
Joined: 22 Jul 2003, 19:06

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby C » 28 Apr 2017, 17:24

Over Wyatt I'd take John Marshall, Karl Jenkins, Roy Babbington, Mike Ratledge, Hugh Hopper, Elton Dean, Allan Holdsworth, Ric Sanders, John Etheridge...

As much as I love Robert's voice and solo albums (which I have them all) he wasn't good enough for The Softs post Volume 2 (Moon in June notwithstanding)








.
neville harp wrote:God bless you brother C x

User avatar
Charlie O.
Posts: 37952
Joined: 21 Jul 2003, 19:53
Location: In-A-Badda-La-Wadda, bay-beh

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby Charlie O. » 28 Apr 2017, 17:36

Post-Third Softs weren't deserving of Wyatt, in my opinion. And I like some of that later stuff.

(And yes, I know they kicked him out. That doesn't disprove my view.)

This is one of those contests that's hard to judge, even if we limit it to the era when both bands were active. On the one hand, Crimso probably made more music during that time frame that I really like/love. On the other hand, the relatively small quantity of SM stuff that I love, I love more deeply and enthusiastically than anything Fripp & pals did.

I'm giving it to the Soft Machine.
Image

User avatar
algroth
Posts: 4923
Joined: 04 Apr 2010, 03:12

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby algroth » 28 Apr 2017, 18:02

Charlie O. wrote:Post-Third Softs weren't deserving of Wyatt, in my opinion. And I like some of that later stuff.


This, pretty much. Only that I don't really like much of that later stuff. To me Vol 2 is the Softs at their peak and it was a pretty steep fall since.

User avatar
C
Robust
Posts: 47950
Joined: 22 Jul 2003, 19:06

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby C » 28 Apr 2017, 18:33

Valid points lads.

Valid points

The Softs reinvented themselves about 5 times.

Music is a brutal industry - yes they did boot out Robert but they did the same with Mike Ratledge (who 'guested' in his own band (!) before 'departing' entirely for the last album)

For me every album was seminally robust.

As much as I love the albums up to Red - The Softs, for me, has it












.
neville harp wrote:God bless you brother C x

User avatar
Snarfyguy
Dominated by the Obscure
Posts: 52023
Joined: 21 Jul 2003, 19:04
Location: New York

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby Snarfyguy » 29 Apr 2017, 03:36

Agree with Charlie and Al.

It's a good point about RW's departure from the Softs. He got out just in time. Should have got out earlier, even.
Jimbo wrote:Look, all I know is pretty much what I get from Robert Parry over at Consortium News.

User avatar
Hightea
Posts: 874
Joined: 16 Apr 2015, 02:18
Location: NY state

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby Hightea » 29 Apr 2017, 05:28

eek tough call, both these bands have multiple excellent albums


In the Court of the Crimson King (1969) 5
In the Wake of Poseidon (1970) 5
Lizard (1970) 4
Islands (1971) 4
Larks' Tongues in Aspic (1973) 5
Starless and Bible Black (1974) 4
Red (1974) 5
Discipline (1981) 5
THRAK (1995) 4




1968: The Soft Machine 4 1/2
1969: Volume Two 4 1/2
1970: Third 5
1971: Fourth 4
1972: Fifth 4
1973: Six 4
1973: Seven 5
1975: Bundles 41/2
1976: Softs 4

In the end I'll give it to King Crimson as their live show and live albums are superior.
can't wait to see them again this summer

User avatar
joels344
Posts: 762
Joined: 17 Dec 2016, 17:37
Contact:

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby joels344 » 29 Apr 2017, 15:06

This is an interesting one, so I have to break it down by making some album/career comparisons.

Soft Machine had the strongest run of consecutive albums i.e., The Soft Machine, Volume Two, and Third. I consider all of these albums classics in the progressive genre. Each album presented sonic growth, evolution and signs of maturity as a group. However, after this brilliant run, the band descends into wanky, jazz-rock territory too much for my interest. Charlie O was correct in saying that Post-Third Softs did not deserve the musical mind of Robert Wyatt. They just became another 70's jazz-rock/fusion band and never really grew any after Fourth.

On the other hand, King Crimson were a band that had an incredibly strong run from 1969-1981. Outside of a few duds, namely, Islands and Starless and Bible Black, they were consistently releasing brilliant and innovative material. They also released some absolute masterpieces like In the Court of the Crimson King, Red and Larks' Tongues in Aspic. Those albums are arguably superior to any Soft Machine release. Post-Discipline King Crimson is even more redeemable than Post-Third Soft Machine, insofar as them branching out and experimenting with different ideas. The only late-Crimso album I consider remotely interesting and listenable is The Power to Believe. Though both eras represent the weakest aspects of their respective careers.

So, I'm going with King Crimson here.

User avatar
ConnyOlivetti
Probing The Sonic Heritage
Posts: 9727
Joined: 06 Nov 2003, 07:14
Location: Below The North Pole
Contact:

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby ConnyOlivetti » 29 Apr 2017, 15:14

joels344 wrote: The only late-Crimso album I consider remotely interesting and listenable is The Power to Believe.


My fav by the late era Crimson!
Truly great!
And to think they delivered a turd before that one! :shock:
never/ever wrote:the BCB-universe...may it continue to piss Coan off ad infinitum.


Un enfant dans electronica!
Je suis!

User avatar
joels344
Posts: 762
Joined: 17 Dec 2016, 17:37
Contact:

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby joels344 » 29 Apr 2017, 15:24

ConnyOlivetti wrote:
joels344 wrote: The only late-Crimso album I consider remotely interesting and listenable is The Power to Believe.


My fav by the late era Crimson!
Truly great!
And to think they delivered a turd before that one! :shock:


The ConstruKction of Light is embarrassing. Probably their worst album ever.

User avatar
ConnyOlivetti
Probing The Sonic Heritage
Posts: 9727
Joined: 06 Nov 2003, 07:14
Location: Below The North Pole
Contact:

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby ConnyOlivetti » 29 Apr 2017, 15:37

joels344 wrote:
ConnyOlivetti wrote:
joels344 wrote: The only late-Crimso album I consider remotely interesting and listenable is The Power to Believe.


My fav by the late era Crimson!
Truly great!
And to think they delivered a turd before that one! :shock:


The ConstruKction of Light is embarrassing. Probably their worst album ever.


Are you sure we are not related, in some way? :)
never/ever wrote:the BCB-universe...may it continue to piss Coan off ad infinitum.


Un enfant dans electronica!
Je suis!

Hugh
Posts: 15352
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 20:43

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby Hugh » 29 Apr 2017, 15:50

joels344 wrote:This is an interesting one, so I have to break it down by making some album/career comparisons.

Soft Machine had the strongest run of consecutive albums i.e., The Soft Machine, Volume Two, and Third. I consider all of these albums classics in the progressive genre. Each album presented sonic growth, evolution and signs of maturity as a group. However, after this brilliant run, the band descends into wanky, jazz-rock territory too much for my interest. Charlie O was correct in saying that Post-Third Softs did not deserve the musical mind of Robert Wyatt. They just became another 70's jazz-rock/fusion band and never really grew any after Fourth.

On the other hand, King Crimson were a band that had an incredibly strong run from 1969-1981. Outside of a few duds, namely, Islands and Starless and Bible Black, they were consistently releasing brilliant and innovative material. They also released some absolute masterpieces like In the Court of the Crimson King, Red and Larks' Tongues in Aspic. Those albums are arguably superior to any Soft Machine release. Post-Discipline King Crimson is even more redeemable than Post-Third Soft Machine, insofar as them branching out and experimenting with different ideas. The only late-Crimso album I consider remotely interesting and listenable is The Power to Believe. Though both eras represent the weakest aspects of their respective careers.

So, I'm going with King Crimson here.


Neither Islands nor Starless And Bible Black are duds.

User avatar
joels344
Posts: 762
Joined: 17 Dec 2016, 17:37
Contact:

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby joels344 » 29 Apr 2017, 16:03

Hugh wrote:
joels344 wrote:This is an interesting one, so I have to break it down by making some album/career comparisons.

Soft Machine had the strongest run of consecutive albums i.e., The Soft Machine, Volume Two, and Third. I consider all of these albums classics in the progressive genre. Each album presented sonic growth, evolution and signs of maturity as a group. However, after this brilliant run, the band descends into wanky, jazz-rock territory too much for my interest. Charlie O was correct in saying that Post-Third Softs did not deserve the musical mind of Robert Wyatt. They just became another 70's jazz-rock/fusion band and never really grew any after Fourth.

On the other hand, King Crimson were a band that had an incredibly strong run from 1969-1981. Outside of a few duds, namely, Islands and Starless and Bible Black, they were consistently releasing brilliant and innovative material. They also released some absolute masterpieces like In the Court of the Crimson King, Red and Larks' Tongues in Aspic. Those albums are arguably superior to any Soft Machine release. Post-Discipline King Crimson is even more redeemable than Post-Third Soft Machine, insofar as them branching out and experimenting with different ideas. The only late-Crimso album I consider remotely interesting and listenable is The Power to Believe. Though both eras represent the weakest aspects of their respective careers.

So, I'm going with King Crimson here.


Neither Islands nor Starless And Bible Black are duds.


Islands is an album that I don't like at all and would place among Beat and The ConstruKction of Light, in terms of "worst King Crimson" albums. It's a forgettable experience really. Starless and Bible Black has some aspects and tracks that I enjoy, but I wasn't convinced by that album when compared to the other releases from the Wetton-era Crimson.

Hugh
Posts: 15352
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 20:43

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby Hugh » 29 Apr 2017, 18:14

Islands is top 5 Crimson for me.

User avatar
ConnyOlivetti
Probing The Sonic Heritage
Posts: 9727
Joined: 06 Nov 2003, 07:14
Location: Below The North Pole
Contact:

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby ConnyOlivetti » 29 Apr 2017, 18:25

Hugh wrote:Islands is top 5 Crimson for me.


Robust for sure!
never/ever wrote:the BCB-universe...may it continue to piss Coan off ad infinitum.


Un enfant dans electronica!
Je suis!

User avatar
toomanyhatz
Power-mad king of the WCC
Posts: 26062
Joined: 07 Apr 2005, 00:01
Location: Just east of where Charlie Parker went to do some relaxin'

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby toomanyhatz » 29 Apr 2017, 18:33

Softs and it's not close. Crimson has a bunch of albums I like. The Softs have two I love (the first two) and many I like. Nothing by Crimson - and yes, that includes the debut - comes close to the best Softs.
sloopjohnc wrote:I know I picked the Diamondbacks, but they were the wildcard. Next teams will be a little tougher.


1959 1963 1965 1966 1974 1977 1978 1981 1988 2017!

User avatar
The Slider
Self-Aggrandising Cock
Posts: 45602
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 19:05
Location: I'm only here for the sneer
Contact:

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby The Slider » 29 Apr 2017, 19:12

I'm bewildered.
I like the first two Softs - and 1/4 of the third.
Apart from that - a huge meh.

Crim all the way.
I have grown to love Islands.
It is Lizard that I have almost no love for.
Starless is great, apart from the aimless jamming

Anything that features Adrian Belew doesn't really come on my Crimdar.
David Bowie Reduxed Mp3 set now available in the usual place, should you want one
Image

User avatar
frimley_greener
Posts: 1380
Joined: 10 Apr 2010, 10:00
Location: frimley green..and it ain't easy being green...

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby frimley_greener » 29 Apr 2017, 19:27

There are pieces from the Soft's that I will take to the grave with me..Nothing from Crimson will accompany me to the afterlife:)
You wanna be a big cop in a small town? Fuck off up the model village.

User avatar
Quaco
F R double E
Posts: 45835
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 19:41

Re: Crimso v The Softs

Postby Quaco » 29 Apr 2017, 21:09

Basically agree with Slider, although I like Lizard as well as the aimless jamming as long as Wetton is involved. KC had more great music, even though I love the first three SM albums dearly.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -