Black Cat Bone

OH wrote:I'm similar to Goat Boy, but I'd like to ask you all a question that I think is related: how often do people ask you about music anyway? It might be because I live abroad and I'm usually around students or expats who I like but rarely have much in common with, but nobody ever asks what I'm in to. It's just something that doesn't seem to come up.

They've hired a new kid at my local, who I haven't met yet, but the owner was telling me about him - a 20 year old student, who's really in to Zeppelin and other boring old shit, and has only been to one concert so far in his life: Drake. Apparently this kid asked Janusz (the owner), who is in his mid-50's, who his 'favourite band' was. Does anyone after a certain age still have a favourite band? Janusz couldn't answer, because like most of us his tastes are broad and varied and he finds it practically impossible to pin down one band as his 'favourite'. Anyway, this is just a long-winded way of saying that once I actually meet this kid, he's going to provide a lot of fodder for threads like this.

joels344 wrote:I avoid music discussions in everyday life. This will sound snobby, but I find it difficult to talk music with causal fans. They'll be talking about favorite Beatles albums or the Imagine Dragons album that I have zero interest in. Most discussions end with them having no idea who I'm talking about or acting like I'm insane for liking such 'obscure artists that nobody likes or knows about." Which is why I save music conversations for this forum, RYM, and the What'sApp.

Similar thing drives me nuts (though it's nobody's fault) when -- on Facebook, for instance -- there's a nice music going on. Sometimes, FB discussions can get pretty obscure. and (for instance) somebody mentions The Lovin' Spoonfu -- maybe in a conversation on acts influenced by Henry Thomas.. Next person chimes in with "Oh, 'Do You Believe in Magic'!" All I can do to kep from replying "No, another Lovin' Spoonful."

Snarfyguy wrote:What the fuck kind of name is "Ed Sheeran" for a pop star?

I was wondering too.

'Ed Sheeran' sounds like the name of a trucking company, that ships pop groups' stage equipment through a whole continent, but like a pop star at all.

LIke this:

Harvey K-Tel wrote:

OH wrote:I'm similar to Goat Boy, but I'd like to ask you all a question that I think is related: how often do people ask you about music anyway? It might be because I live abroad and I'm usually around students or expats who I like but rarely have much in common with, but nobody ever asks what I'm in to. It's just something that doesn't seem to come up.

They've hired a new kid at my local, who I haven't met yet, but the owner was telling me about him - a 20 year old student, who's really in to Zeppelin and other boring old shit, and has only been to one concert so far in his life: Drake. Apparently this kid asked Janusz (the owner), who is in his mid-50's, who his 'favourite band' was. Does anyone after a certain age still have a favourite band? Janusz couldn't answer, because like most of us his tastes are broad and varied and he finds it practically impossible to pin down one band as his 'favourite'. Anyway, this is just a long-winded way of saying that once I actually meet this kid, he's going to provide a lot of fodder for threads like this.

When I was young I felt my opinions about music were like Newtonian Laws. Now my attitude is: I like what I like; you like what you like. Big deal. It's subjective.

There are more important things to have strong opinions about.

Goat Boy wrote:I am always honest and forthright but depending on the audience I will adjust my ire. It's a funny thing because generally people don't have the same kind of passion about this stuff so you do sometimes find yourself ranting like a madman. From the other side it must look weird but what you gonna do? It means something, you know?

I remember a mate declaring that The Bends by Radiohead had to be one of the greatest albums ever made to which I replied "bollocks!" and just to prove how much bollocks it was I said "I can name 100 better albums". So I did. Like I actually got a pen and paper and started listing albums furiously. I was only 18. I've matured...a bit.

I share this sentiment to an extent. I don't seem capable of having a non-passionate discussion about music. If it's around people who I know well and who I have an idea about their musical tastes, then I can keep it on the lowdown in terms of waiting for other people to talk, sharing ideas and so forth. If a "casual" music fan or someone who doesn't know I'm obsessed with music asks me what I am into, it can all go downhill very fast depending on how receptive they are. It's like being on speed. I can talk shit for as long as you like and I have no off switch.

My guitar classes have been a constant source of magnifying the cultural divide. There are lots of teachers and as it's Texas, there's a fair old Americana /country / american rock focus of the classes. When we have classes, and I mention an artist, or a song, the likelihood is - nobody else in the group has heard that song, or maybe even that artist, ever. Or maybe they will have heard of the artist - so then I will start talking about the artist's songs - and nobody will have heard any of the songs I talk about. And, I'm not (honestly) trying to be overly clever or know it all - I am talking about music because I'm in a music class and music is what I know. On the occasions where I have played a song I like to the group on my phone they have always, always looked part astonished and part delighted at what they hear. However, every single song that they bring to play - without exception, I am afraid - I either hate, or leave me totally unmoved. And I come home to Baron and say, "I just didn't grow up with this, I feel awful and I can't feign an interest." I will tell him what the song was, and he'll say well God, you shouldn't like that, it's terrible, or run of the mill, or something. So it isn't just me that feels that. The best thing I can ever say to the songs that other people bring is "well - it began and it ended."

Moreover, I don't care. I can't say I love a song that someone else likes if I don't, the same way I won't dance to songs I dislike. I don't have it in me.

I'll say anything about anyone if it starts a fight.

yomptepi wrote:I'll say anything about anyone if it starts a fight.

Not what I've heard.



"Yomptepi's a real pussycat, wouldn't say boo to a goose," Joe Strummer purred.


"Yompy? Love him, couldn't ask for a pleasanter camping companion," Tony Blair said, very intently.

Work colleague: "You like music so did you see X-Factor last night?" I just say I was out.

Minnie the Minx wrote:

Goat Boy wrote:I am always honest and forthright but depending on the audience I will adjust my ire. It's a funny thing because generally people don't have the same kind of passion about this stuff so you do sometimes find yourself ranting like a madman. From the other side it must look weird but what you gonna do? It means something, you know?

I remember a mate declaring that The Bends by Radiohead had to be one of the greatest albums ever made to which I replied "bollocks!" and just to prove how much bollocks it was I said "I can name 100 better albums". So I did. Like I actually got a pen and paper and started listing albums furiously. I was only 18. I've matured...a bit.

I share this sentiment to an extent. I don't seem capable of having a non-passionate discussion about music. If it's around people who I know well and who I have an idea about their musical tastes, then I can keep it on the lowdown in terms of waiting for other people to talk, sharing ideas and so forth. If a "casual" music fan or someone who doesn't know I'm obsessed with music asks me what I am into, it can all go downhill very fast depending on how receptive they are. It's like being on speed. I can talk shit for as long as you like and I have no off switch.

My guitar classes have been a constant source of magnifying the cultural divide. There are lots of teachers and as it's Texas, there's a fair old Americana /country / american rock focus of the classes. When we have classes, and I mention an artist, or a song, the likelihood is - nobody else in the group has heard that song, or maybe even that artist, ever. Or maybe they will have heard of the artist - so then I will start talking about the artist's songs - and nobody will have heard any of the songs I talk about. And, I'm not (honestly) trying to be overly clever or know it all - I am talking about music because I'm in a music class and music is what I know. On the occasions where I have played a song I like to the group on my phone they have always, always looked part astonished and part delighted at what they hear. However, every single song that they bring to play - without exception, I am afraid - I either hate, or leave me totally unmoved. And I come home to Baron and say, "I just didn't grow up with this, I feel awful and I can't feign an interest." I will tell him what the song was, and he'll say well God, you shouldn't like that, it's terrible, or run of the mill, or something. So it isn't just me that feels that. The best thing I can ever say to the songs that other people bring is "well - it began and it ended."

Moreover, I don't care. I can't say I love a song that someone else likes if I don't, the same way I won't dance to songs I dislike. I don't have it in me.

I haven't had that kind of experience exactly, but can relate to those feelings very much.

I really get fed up with it. I think it's what you get when you live abroad, unfortunately. I mean, not in every case - but it's fairly typical.

I agree with JC, the topic doesn't really come up, and I'm not really interested in discussing it with people unless they're genuinely interested in something, which they aren't. So I would probably aim to be mostly amiable without lying through my teeth.

Do people ask 'what are you reading?' more often, then? I think so.

Is music seen as a 'private' thing?

OH wrote:

Minnie the Minx wrote:

Goat Boy wrote:I am always honest and forthright but depending on the audience I will adjust my ire. It's a funny thing because generally people don't have the same kind of passion about this stuff so you do sometimes find yourself ranting like a madman. From the other side it must look weird but what you gonna do? It means something, you know?

I remember a mate declaring that The Bends by Radiohead had to be one of the greatest albums ever made to which I replied "bollocks!" and just to prove how much bollocks it was I said "I can name 100 better albums". So I did. Like I actually got a pen and paper and started listing albums furiously. I was only 18. I've matured...a bit.

I share this sentiment to an extent. I don't seem capable of having a non-passionate discussion about music. If it's around people who I know well and who I have an idea about their musical tastes, then I can keep it on the lowdown in terms of waiting for other people to talk, sharing ideas and so forth. If a "casual" music fan or someone who doesn't know I'm obsessed with music asks me what I am into, it can all go downhill very fast depending on how receptive they are. It's like being on speed. I can talk shit for as long as you like and I have no off switch.

My guitar classes have been a constant source of magnifying the cultural divide. There are lots of teachers and as it's Texas, there's a fair old Americana /country / american rock focus of the classes. When we have classes, and I mention an artist, or a song, the likelihood is - nobody else in the group has heard that song, or maybe even that artist, ever. Or maybe they will have heard of the artist - so then I will start talking about the artist's songs - and nobody will have heard any of the songs I talk about. And, I'm not (honestly) trying to be overly clever or know it all - I am talking about music because I'm in a music class and music is what I know. On the occasions where I have played a song I like to the group on my phone they have always, always looked part astonished and part delighted at what they hear. However, every single song that they bring to play - without exception, I am afraid - I either hate, or leave me totally unmoved. And I come home to Baron and say, "I just didn't grow up with this, I feel awful and I can't feign an interest." I will tell him what the song was, and he'll say well God, you shouldn't like that, it's terrible, or run of the mill, or something. So it isn't just me that feels that. The best thing I can ever say to the songs that other people bring is "well - it began and it ended."

Moreover, I don't care. I can't say I love a song that someone else likes if I don't, the same way I won't dance to songs I dislike. I don't have it in me.

I haven't had that kind of experience exactly, but can relate to those feelings very much.

I really get fed up with it. I think it's what you get when you live abroad, unfortunately. I mean, not in every case - but it's fairly typical.

Especially when you realise that there is no way that you can translate the music of your past ( and and therefore your listening present) to anyone who didn't grow up in the same place.

Minnie the Minx wrote:

OH wrote:I haven't had that kind of experience exactly, but can relate to those feelings very much.

I really get fed up with it. I think it's what you get when you live abroad, unfortunately. I mean, not in every case - but it's fairly typical.

Especially when you realise that there is no way that you can translate the music of your past ( and and therefore your listening present) to anyone who didn't grow up in the same place.

Yes. There are cultural connections that are quite often geographical too. Age plays its part too, of course.

'Dead-end street' came up today in class - the students knew the phrase (but didn't know 'cul de sac'). So of course I had to mention The Kinks, and of course they hadn't heard of them, so I swallowed the urge to call them all idiots and then on we went with the lesson.

Muskrat wrote:

joels344 wrote:I avoid music discussions in everyday life. This will sound snobby, but I find it difficult to talk music with causal fans. They'll be talking about favorite Beatles albums or the Imagine Dragons album that I have zero interest in. Most discussions end with them having no idea who I'm talking about or acting like I'm insane for liking such 'obscure artists that nobody likes or knows about." Which is why I save music conversations for this forum, RYM, and the What'sApp.

Similar thing drives me nuts (though it's nobody's fault) when -- on Facebook, for instance -- there's a nice music going on. Sometimes, FB discussions can get pretty obscure. and (for instance) somebody mentions The Lovin' Spoonfu -- many in a conversation on acts influenced by Henry Thomas.. Next person chimes in with "Oh, 'Do You Believe i Magic'!" All I can do to kep from replying "No, another Lovin' Spoonful."

Yeah, it's like they ruin the conservation by mentioning an obvious band or song that has nothing to do with the intention of the original post.

I avoid them, and usually because I'm the one that cops the ribbing. Working in a predominantly blue collar environment music tastes are incredibly rigid, Oz rock and heavy stuff or hip hop amongst the younger crowd so any variation tends to cop a bit of stick. I remember when I had to take a coworker to a job and he saw my cd collection in my car and gave it to me for having a Sinead O'Connor album amongst it, calling it "girls music"

K wrote:Years ago I tried to engage someone at work with a conversation about music. Over lunch, I just said, "I've just got the new David Bowie album [Reality] and it's good. It's great that he's still releasing quality stuff."(Or words to that effect)
I was met with he reply, "The new Sting album is really good too."
Fuck this conversation.

The trick is learning how to say, "If Steve is mastering it, I'm buying it" in any language.

I'm haven't been subjected to co-workers' taste in music (which is probably just background noise for them anyway) in almost 30 years. My neighbors don't play music loudly. I just hear what I want. On the rare occasions I do hear something else, like in the store, I can tune it out long enough, or maybe even enjoy it for what it's worth. Speaking of Eye Of The Tiger, I actually got that one the other day in the supermarket, but I just paid attention to my shopping, and it was over soon enough. If someone is doing the driving, I always defer - whatever helps them keep their cool is fine by me. 40 hours per week at work used to be a real challenge, though: "If you make me listen to Stars of 45, I get equal time. Deal? Right - here's an Art Bears cd, see how YOU like it now!" I assume people listen to their stuff on earbuds now, the era of cranking a radio in an office setting is probably long gone.

People's tastes seem more of a mishmash these days, and maybe I've mellowed out on it too, but when someone puts something on while I'll there, I just say, "Thanks for that," which covers all the bases. In one sense, music doesn't carry the same weight in popular culture it once did, but conversely, people seem more open to things, especially if it's just a few minutes. Random play seems to have opened people up to lots of new possibilities. What once seemed like torture for an entire album seems more tolerable in four-minute chunks.

Depends on the person, but I'm usually pretty honest if also pretty diplomatic. I'll rarely say something I dislike is "alright", but I will say it's perhaps "not my thing", assuming I'm talking to someone who doesn't share my enthusiasm in music. If that someone does, usually I'll be a bit more open and might even lend myself to the occasional hyperbole or punchline or other. If a conversation also merits it: say, someone is talking about how they hate something or another, I might join in more vociferously, either in agreement or disagreement. As a teenager I used to be a lot more combative about it but I've mellowed down over time, above all else for two reasons: first, you have to learn to choose your battles and understand not everyone cares about music the way we do, or wants to talk about music to that degree; and second, you are kinda hurting your chances to actually introduce the other to new and "better" things, as they'll be more inclined to listen with a jaded perspective (say, looking for the flaw to prove you wrong), or ignore your recommendation outright. If my intention when discussing music is to share and learn about new things - and it usually is - then tempering my opinions somewhat helps that objective.

It's a tricky one, isn't it? With a lot of people I tend to throw the question back at them ('what are your favourite acts', etc) and see where it goes from there. But there will be differences, obviously if you meet someone at a music festival, for instance, you can be pretty sure they're into their music, otherwise they wouldn't've shelled out their money. However, a random conversation with someone while waiting for the bus or whatever might not be so fruitful. I tend to talk about what I like, and fortunately I like enough stuff that there's bound to be some overlap if they're genuinely interested.

Snarfyguy wrote:What the fuck kind of name is "Ed Sheeran" for a pop star?

I really could not have stated this any better.

As thread premises go, this is better than most.

What do I PERSONALLY think about "planting my flag/capturing enemies" vs. "a certain duty to diplomacy and kindness - often with the end goal of assessing and honoring the perceived cost/benefit ratio of a potential interaction"?

I don't know - my own "blowhard karma" has really come back at me a fair amount over the years, and perhaps forced a certain (attempted) "fearless moral inventory" in the area of, you know, blowing one's own mind with the enormous awesomeness of a cleverly (perhaps even bullishly) expressed opinion.

Personally, it was the burden or self-generated mandate of the young me to really "lay down some strongly felt artistic judgments" no matter who the audience (or their level of interest/the effect of the lecture). I have it on good faith that I observed these obligations well beyond what was required.

You wanna come off like you're utterly intoxicated by your own opinion (possibly to the point of a certain social tone deafness)? Fuck - I'm in no position to deter it. I spent more of my life than not acting out that role. Does any of you remember the Simpsons episode (ca. 1999-2000) when Barney stops drinking? The ultimate catalyst is that he forgets his own birthday party, and his friends show him a video of the night...one of the highlights is a scene in which Barney is giving Lisa Simpson an especially aggressive (and decidedly non-PC) lecture about some convoluted form of segregation, and (in review) Homer narrates "THIS is a stage we like to call 'Professor Barney'!"

It's potentially tough. We may all exist at slightly differing (and, over time, shifting) levels of comfort with being called 'Professor San Juan' (insert your own name here as needed).

I've had a handful of friends, colleagues and collaborators over the years who may have (in somewhat recent times) found the potential forum for their 'big opinion' (alternately 'that one thing they absolutely believe themselves to know') utterly impossible to resist, and...it's the sort of thing that can look a little "nasty" or "petty", really, if one gets carried away with it. I mean, admittedly not least because I may actually disagree with an insistently, and perhaps, smugly delivered dissertation on why people who share MY personal tastes are apparently cloth eared morons/hillbillies. It is absolutely possible to be boorish with an Ivy League derived vocabulary. You can totally be a high IQ troll, should you feel the irresistible urge.

So, I dunno. The people I play music with, or the people I sort of "listen with" (many of you, as it happens)? There's a version of playfully stated frankness that enriches the dialogue, but...even THERE, I perceive a basic "line crossing point of delineation" that I'm more willing and eager to honor. There's inevitably...divergent points of interest, and...what do I actually get in return for being an asshole about it? The benefit of tagging myself out of a prickly exchange in advance is, yes, a form of self serving courtesy, but also...we've all got places to be, ultimately.

The rest of the world? Oh, hell - we're all here to help each other out, right? I'm the parent who picks my children up from school and arranges their social stuff ("playdate" is a perfectly acceptable term for what my 7 year old and his friends do), and...there's a lot of parental socializing. Thankfully, none of the other kids' parents are...you know...Nazis, but...if they really wanted to talk to me about Donovan, we'd be doing just that. Mostly, we aren't (nor are we discussing Adele).

Social media has also really forced some of these issues. If music is the one area where you can still go out there and troll a picture of someone's wife with "Jesus - they really weren't fucking around with the ugly stick!", then...yeah, bully for you! However, I think as our era of hyper-interconnectedness enters its third decade, maybe "en masse" a number of us are starting to realize that a superfluous bitchy/pithy remark is increasingly less the norm, and maybe even the sort of thing where you see another person flexing that muscle and you just think "would you look at yourself?".

Not unerringly, perhaps, but this has increasingly become an opportunity to "be the example I wish to see".

If we're getting into "You demanded to know" territory, one can presumably be honest without being a shit about it. I find there is always an outlet for my less seemly tendencies - some type of format where the effect is less abrasive. The parody pieces Andy and I were writing certainly lacked no editorial content, but...you kind of had to go looking for it. Similarly - what we all do in closed quarters hurts no one: my band and I are often fortunate enough to play support slots for touring acts who (in my opinion) may not be dragging around a particularly pleasing version of some previous era's worst signifiers. There's bound to be some collateral discussion (strictly within the family) about the considerable gulf between "how the less gracious headliner sees himself/his entitlements" vs. "what's measurably happening out there", but...at the end of the day, you are primarily just happy for the opportunity.

TL;DR version - belatedly or not, I'm increasingly inclined not to make a big thing about my own clearly questionable tastes and how they intersect (or don't) with yours.