Was Roger Daltrey really needed in the Who?

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Re: Was Roger Daltrey really needed in the Who?

Postby Quaco » 02 Apr 2015, 23:56

I believe the process was that Townshend would present a bunch of songs to the band, then Roger and the guys would say which ones they were interested in. If there was one they liked but that Roger couldn't get behind vocally, he didn't necessarily veto it on that basis. With Tommy it was different because there were different characters in play, and Roger decided he wanted to be the character Tommy, and so chose not sing the Acid Queen or Uncle Ernie's parts because it would dilute the effect.
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Re: Was Roger Daltrey really needed in the Who?

Postby slightbreeze » 02 Apr 2015, 23:57

Never rated Daltrey as a vocalist. Watching him live, he just never seemed to fit in with the rest of the band. The disinterest of Entwhistle, the manic Moon, the uber cool Townsend with windmill arms, battering his guitar into submission, but Daltrey always looked as if he'd been to a fancy dress shop and asked for a rock star outfit. Sure, he could throw his Mic around, but even the famous scream on Won't get fooled again was lacking in passion. I mean, how can you scream without passion.

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Re: Was Roger Daltrey really needed in the Who?

Postby Diamond Dog » 03 Apr 2015, 00:03

yomptepi wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:

Precisely. Spot on - everything you need to know right here.


But it doesn't explain why he sang so many of the songs himself. If he was imagining Daltrey singing the songs, then why not let him sing them?


Because Daltrey couldn't, I would imagine.

Let's face it - Roger is a very one dimensional vocalist. No matter how much you try and dress it up, subtlety and Daltrey were very distant cousins. It just wasn't going to work sometimes.
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Re: Was Roger Daltrey really needed in the Who?

Postby Diamond Dog » 03 Apr 2015, 00:05

slightbreeze wrote: Sure, he could throw his Mic around, but even the famous scream on Won't get fooled again was lacking in passion. I mean, how can you scream without passion.


That's one of Daltrey's finest moments.
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Re: Was Roger Daltrey really needed in the Who?

Postby Count Machuki » 03 Apr 2015, 00:37

Diamond Dog wrote:
slightbreeze wrote: Sure, he could throw his Mic around, but even the famous scream on Won't get fooled again was lacking in passion. I mean, how can you scream without passion.


That's one of Daltrey's finest moments.


Did I read somewhere that it's double-tracked? I found that vaguely disillusioning
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Re: Was Roger Daltrey really needed in the Who?

Postby bobzilla77 » 03 Apr 2015, 00:38

There is something transcendent about the way Daltrey sings those terribly vulnerable lyrics with such power. It made vulnerability seem cool, like it was nothing to be afraid of.

Then if you need some real old fashioned vulnerability, Pete could sing that one.

Pete has actually said about some of his songs, that when Roger sings the lyrics, they MEAN something different than when Pete sings them.
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Re: Was Roger Daltrey really needed in the Who?

Postby Quaco » 03 Apr 2015, 01:26

Count Machuki wrote:
Diamond Dog wrote:
slightbreeze wrote: Sure, he could throw his Mic around, but even the famous scream on Won't get fooled again was lacking in passion. I mean, how can you scream without passion.


That's one of Daltrey's finest moments.


Did I read somewhere that it's double-tracked? I found that vaguely disillusioning

Glyn Johns confirms the studio version was, but then again, the live version is none too shabby.



For some of us, it doesn't get much better than 7:50.
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Re: Was Roger Daltrey really needed in the Who?

Postby TG » 03 Apr 2015, 05:28

Quacoan wrote:
Count Machuki wrote:Did I read somewhere that it's double-tracked? I found that vaguely disillusioning

Glyn Johns confirms the studio version was, but then again, the live version is none too shabby.

For some of us, it doesn't get much better than 7:50.




Not sure why you would need any confirmation. Listen at the end of the scream (around the seven and a half minute mark or so) and you can clearly hear two separate screams ending.
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Re: Was Roger Daltrey really needed in the Who?

Postby The Slider » 03 Apr 2015, 10:26

Quacoan wrote:I think to a large extent it was his band. Even though PT was clearly the leader and Moon was the star, it was probably Daltrey who made everybody come to work in the morning, so to speak. So I don't think we'd have a Who without him. But so often you realize he was the weak link, as you did -- their instrumental stuff was transcendent, he often bellowed when he could have tried something subtler, PT sings a lot of the greatest songs, he wasn't much of a creative thinker, etc. Still, on balance, I think a Daltrey-less Who would have been the smuggest bunch of jerks, and I'm glad he was there as a straight man. Made Townshend and Moon much funnier.



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Re: Was Roger Daltrey really needed in the Who?

Postby Jimbo » 03 Apr 2015, 12:42

Maybe my memory is faulty but I have seen the Who maybe three or four times over the years and I can't recall Pete ever singing lead. I am including when they performed Tommy live. Am I misremembering things?
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Re: Was Roger Daltrey really needed in the Who?

Postby The Slider » 03 Apr 2015, 12:47

Yes.
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Re: Was Roger Daltrey really needed in the Who?

Postby borofan » 03 Apr 2015, 14:54

slightbreeze wrote:Never rated Daltrey as a vocalist. Watching him live, he just never seemed to fit in with the rest of the band. The disinterest of Entwhistle, the manic Moon, the uber cool Townsend with windmill arms, battering his guitar into submission, but Daltrey always looked as if he'd been to a fancy dress shop and asked for a rock star outfit. Sure, he could throw his Mic around, but even the famous scream on Won't get fooled again was lacking in passion. I mean, how can you scream without passion.

Utter bollocks.
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Re: Was Roger Daltrey really needed in the Who?

Postby Quaco » 03 Apr 2015, 17:33

TG wrote:
Quacoan wrote:
Count Machuki wrote:Did I read somewhere that it's double-tracked? I found that vaguely disillusioning

Glyn Johns confirms the studio version was, but then again, the live version is none too shabby.

For some of us, it doesn't get much better than 7:50.




Not sure why you would need any confirmation. Listen at the end of the scream (around the seven and a half minute mark or so) and you can clearly hear two separate screams ending.

I suppose the reason I worded it like that is that, like Count M., I had never noticed it was doubled. It was only when I read an interview with Glyn Johns a few years ago that I realized it. So I too went through a moment's disillusionment. But it's a hell of a scream anyway -- one that he was able to repeat night after night -- as well as one of the most dramatic moments in rock. I spent about 15 minutes yesterday trying to imagine a local band coming up with something like that. :)
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Re: Was Roger Daltrey really needed in the Who?

Postby Quaco » 03 Apr 2015, 17:35

Jimbo wrote:Maybe my memory is faulty but I have seen the Who maybe three or four times over the years and I can't recall Pete ever singing lead. I am including when they performed Tommy live. Am I misremembering things?

Live, they do tend toward the songs that Roger sings, for obvious reasons. But when they've done Tommy, Pete does his usual songs ("Capt. Walker", "Acid Queen").
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Re: Was Roger Daltrey really needed in the Who?

Postby Quaco » 03 Apr 2015, 17:37

The Slider wrote:I am kind of getting bored of typing "This ^^^" under everything Jim writes, so I shan't bother any more.
Just assume that I agree with him.

The Slider is a complete jerk who has no conception of music especially Wagner and that Steve Harley song and is in no way nostalgic about glam rock or London and he smells too.
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Re: Was Roger Daltrey really needed in the Who?

Postby bobzilla77 » 03 Apr 2015, 22:15

Quacoan wrote:
Jimbo wrote:Maybe my memory is faulty but I have seen the Who maybe three or four times over the years and I can't recall Pete ever singing lead. I am including when they performed Tommy live. Am I misremembering things?

Live, they do tend toward the songs that Roger sings, for obvious reasons. But when they've done Tommy, Pete does his usual songs ("Capt. Walker", "Acid Queen").


Pete usually has at least one vocal number during the set. I'm One, Drowned, and Eminence Front are the most common ones. I've wished they'd give him some more at certain times.

But I can think of a couple tours where they didn't do any... most of 1971, most of 1975-76, all you'd get was him and Daltrey hamming it up during Magic Bus.

So I was surprised by the OP. Most of us fans wish Pete would sing more.

Incidentally the idea that Daltrey sings lead on only 6 Tommy songs is wrong. Amazing Journey, Eyesight To The Blind, Christmas, Pinball Wizard, Do You Think It's Alright, Go To The Mirror, Smash The Mirror, I'm Free, Sally Simpson, Welcome, We're Not Gonna Take it. Not counting brief interstitial bits or ones where they all sing in harmony like Tommy Can You Hear Me. It is the least he sings on any of their records, true. Presumably they are trying to mix it up and not have all the characters sung by the same person. Roger's usually Tommy, but sometimes Pete is too (Sensation, Go To The Mirror).
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Re: Was Roger Daltrey really needed in the Who?

Postby Quaco » 03 Apr 2015, 23:26

The Sell Out also has a large number of non-Roger songs:
Odorono (Pete)
Our Love Was (Pete)
Charles Atlas (group not Roger)
I Can't Reach You (Pete)
Medac (John)
Silas Stingy (John)
Sunrise (Pete)

... leaving only these, and some aren't real lead vocals anyway:
Armenia (co-lead with Keith, per Anyway Anyhow Anywhere book)
Heinz Baked Beans (group)
Mary-Anne (R, P and J in harmony)
Tattoo
I Can See for Miles
Relax
Rael


I think that's why people like it so much!
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Re: Was Roger Daltrey really needed in the Who?

Postby bobzilla77 » 03 Apr 2015, 23:31

I'd never really thought of that! In that case they are trying to make it sounds like a bunch of different groups on the radio so they largely alternate from one to the other.
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Re: Was Roger Daltrey really needed in the Who?

Postby Quaco » 03 Apr 2015, 23:37

I see it a bit differently, but yeah it has that effect of sounding like different groups. I think a lot of the song choices (even recordings?) were in place before the pirate radio idea came about. I just thought they were going through a Beach Boys/Pepper "aaaah" phase and/or some of the product that Townshend was (increasingly) churning out was too young for Daltrey to really get behind. He seems drawn to the songs that have more grit or experience ("I Can See for Miles", "Relax") rather than the pimple-faced things.

Plus of course, the nature of the jingles (largely written by John) made it not really the classic Who sound, but trying to be more faceless/comedic/generically melodic.
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Re: Was Roger Daltrey really needed in the Who?

Postby bobzilla77 » 04 Apr 2015, 00:00

And even the outtake songs include vocal numbers from Pete, John and Keith.
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