beyond the 130 - eddie cochran

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Guy E
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Re: eddie cochran

Postby Guy E » 25 Feb 2015, 07:28

toomanyhatz wrote:
Muskrat wrote:
Guy E wrote:Great indeed. Comparisons are besides the point, he's the quintessential 50's white rock and roller. A real guitar slinger, a great songwriter, a teen heart throb.


I'll give you the heartthrob (though I don't see it) but Buddy Holly and Carl Perkins were both at least good guitar players and great songwriters. I think of Cochran more as an early Glen Campbell, without as clear a sense of direction. Cochran recorded a LOT of second- or third-rate material, though of course some of it was other people's records, and a lot of stuff was released after he died that otherwise probably wouldn't have seen daylight. Hell, I think Ritchie Valens was more consistent than Cochran.


This surprises me coming from you (the guy with the Cochran song as his sig). Yep, Holly and Perkins were good guitar players. Better than Cochran? Probably not. As far as the second and third-rate material, I guess I haven't heard most of that. He did a lot of sessions on other people's stuff, but judging him on that's like judging Jimmy Page on his work with Englebert Humperdinck. There's sure not much under his name that's not at least good. I mean, even something flawed and juvenile like "Dark Lonely Street" is an interesting bit of teen melodrama, which taken in context of his age and the era promises greater things.

As for sense of direction, he was all over the freaking map, which of course I like. He did teen melodrama, he did guitar workouts, he did sweet pop numbers, he did proto-punk...about the only thing he didn't do was sappy string-laden stuff, which even his buddy Gene Vincent fell prey to. As the complete package, perhaps he wasn't as self-contained as Buddy Holly, but that's the only person I'd put above him.

I'd agree with that. I mean, if both men had lived long lives I imagine Holly would have had a more lasting impact. Cochran and Holly were both boy next door types, but Holly was something of a geek. That image stuff isn't important to me, but looking back, Cochran strikes me as a complete natural and he must have appealed to the girls in a way someone like Gene Vincent did not, even if he wasn't quite in Ricky Nelson territory.

He was the first 50's rocker I discovered, buying the 2-LP anthology on UA when I was in high school. That was probably due to Who and Rod Stewart covers, and it was definitely a good purchase.
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Re: eddie cochran

Postby Matt Wilson » 25 Feb 2015, 15:57

If any of you guys are interested enough to splurge for the Bear Family set, then I recommend it.
Image

It's got everything Eddie recorded - not only all the records issued under his name but all the Cochran Brothers stuff and sessions as well. Despite the hyperbole-laden opening post of this thread, Cochran really deserves a BCB 100 thread where we discuss his music and influence more in depth. His song "Three Steps to Heaven" for instance contains a riff used by Bowie on one of those Ziggy Stardust songs whose name escapes me at the moment. "Summertime Blues" is one of those rare rock 'n' roll classics where the definitive version isn't necessarily by the guy who originally did it (though it is in my book).

We should also have a thread on Johnny Burnette as I'll bet he's even less well-known than the NME-approved Cochran.
Come to think of it - I'll do it myself. Maybe this weekend if I remember.

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Re: eddie cochran

Postby 'skope » 25 Feb 2015, 16:19

i'm pleased that my thread has led to your re-discovery of cochran, wilson. even more so if it leads to you doing something useful over the weekend.

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Re: eddie cochran

Postby Matt Wilson » 25 Feb 2015, 16:22

It's lead to no such thing, Adam. I never forgot about him.
But I'm pleased you decided to think about a pre-Paul McCartney artist. Something besides 1966.

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Re: eddie cochran

Postby Muskrat » 25 Feb 2015, 17:31

toomanyhatz wrote:This surprises me coming from you (the guy with the Cochran song as his sig).


The song is my sig. I also like Summertime Blues (terrific production on that, too); Nervous Breakdown, 20-Flight Rock, Somethin' Else, Hallelujah and maybe a couple more -- note that of those listed, only one is a Cochran original.


"Hey, you guys -- you gotta wear ties" -- also not a Cochran composition. I've often written, here and elsewhere, that I don't buy into the theory the songwriting ability is mandatory for a performer (good selection of material, of course, is); just pointing this out in response to others' admiration for Cochran's writing. I'd like to know which songs they have in mind.
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Re: eddie cochran

Postby Matt Wilson » 25 Feb 2015, 18:33

He wrote or co-wrote "C'mon Everybody," "Summertime Blues," "Twenty Flight Rock, "Teenage Heaven," "Somethin' Else," "Mean When I'm Mad," "Skinny Jim," "Pretty Girl," "Three Steps to Heaven," "Drive in Show,"... geez, most of the numbers we associate with him.

The Cochran-Capehart writing credit is on many of his songs.

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Re: eddie cochran

Postby toomanyhatz » 25 Feb 2015, 19:07

Matt Wilson wrote:He wrote or co-wrote "C'mon Everybody," "Summertime Blues," "Twenty Flight Rock, "Teenage Heaven," "Somethin' Else," "Mean When I'm Mad," "Skinny Jim," "Pretty Girl," "Three Steps to Heaven," "Drive in Show,"... geez, most of the numbers we associate with him.

The Cochran-Capehart writing credit is on many of his songs.


What I was going to say.

I'm sure you can make a case (and I'm sure it's been made before) that Capehart was the main writer of that stuff, but then it fits under the 'knowing a good song' category. As does Sharon Sheeley.

Also, you can look at the rest of Capehart's work and see what's missing. Knowledge of the teen milieu, and inquisitive nature that led him to explore a variety of types of music. Not only am I convinced those came from Cochran, I'm convinced they would have developed further had he lived.
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Re: eddie cochran

Postby Muskrat » 25 Feb 2015, 19:15

From what I've been told, Capehart -- Cochran's publisher -- just stuck his name on the songs. Which may or may not be true; my source was no Capehart fan.
Things that a fella can't forget...

Quaco wrote: Not that I advocate writing "Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict" if that happens to be in the set, but just don't shorten it quite so much!

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Re: eddie cochran

Postby Matt Wilson » 25 Feb 2015, 19:36

Muskrat wrote:From what I've been told, Capehart -- Cochran's publisher -- just stuck his name on the songs. Which may or may not be true; my source was no Capehart fan.


I'd have to go back and read the Bear Family essay in that box set. If I remember I'll do it when I get home from work.
Of course, Cochran expert skope could save us the time and clarify things now...

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Re: eddie cochran

Postby Rayge » 25 Feb 2015, 20:45

Matt Wilson wrote:Cochran really deserves a BCB 100 thread where we discuss his music and influence more in depth. His song "Three Steps to Heaven" for instance contains a riff used by Bowie on one of those Ziggy Stardust songs whose name escapes me at the moment. "Summertime Blues" is one of those rare rock 'n' roll classics where the definitive version isn't necessarily by the guy who originally did it (though it is in my book).

We should also have a thread on Johnny Burnette as I'll bet he's even less well-known than the NME-approved Cochran.
Come to think of it - I'll do it myself. Maybe this weekend if I remember.


That would be great.
I suggested Eddie and other rock and rollers but they didn't get in there. I'll add them to the Beyond the 130 since you're volunteering. For Eddie, too, although maybe skope could retitle this as it's kind of turning into a general discussion anyway
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Re: eddie cochran

Postby pcqgod » 25 Feb 2015, 21:43

He seems a bigger influence on later hard rock than most 50's rockers. Straight 4/4 beats and churning rhythm guitar probably have a lot to do with that.


A favorite:

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Re: eddie cochran

Postby Muskrat » 25 Feb 2015, 22:49

pcqgod wrote:He seems a bigger influence on later hard rock than most 50's rockers. Straight 4/4 beats and churning rhythm guitar probably have a lot to do with that.


A favorite:



Written by John D. Loudermilk

Things that a fella can't forget...

Quaco wrote: Not that I advocate writing "Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict" if that happens to be in the set, but just don't shorten it quite so much!

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Re: eddie cochran

Postby pcqgod » 25 Feb 2015, 23:22

I did not know that.
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Re: eddie cochran

Postby Thesiger » 26 Feb 2015, 09:34

Matt Wilson wrote: His song "Three Steps to Heaven" for instance contains a riff used by Bowie on one of those Ziggy Stardust songs whose name escapes me at the moment.


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Re: beyond the 130 - eddie cochran

Postby Rayge » 15 Jan 2018, 18:59

bump
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