Brian Wilson vs Paul McCartney 62-67

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Brian Wilson vs Paul McCartney 62-67

Brian Wilson
13
42%
Paul McCartney
18
58%
 
Total votes: 31

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Canis lupus
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Brian Wilson vs Paul McCartney 62-67

Postby Canis lupus » 07 Dec 2014, 13:41

Within the specied period, who was the more gifted and / or important musician?

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Re: Brian Wilson vs Paul McCartney 62-67

Postby Your Friendly Neighbourhood Postman » 07 Dec 2014, 17:47

Hm.

My reason says: both were enormously gifted and influential; artists. So it would be a tie.

My heart says: Brian Wilson.

The whole of me (with mind, heart, soul, spirit) says: such questions are silly when we're talking about these dizzying heights.
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Re: Brian Wilson vs Paul McCartney 62-67

Postby 'skope » 07 Dec 2014, 17:51

wilson at a canter.

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Re: Brian Wilson vs Paul McCartney 62-67

Postby GoogaMooga » 07 Dec 2014, 18:19

wilson, without a doubt
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Re: Brian Wilson vs Paul McCartney 62-67

Postby MALLETT » 07 Dec 2014, 18:23

I'm more interested in what goes through people's minds when they vote, than any kind of 'measuring' of these two men's talents.

There's been so much pseudo-academic talk over the years about their musical abilities that I can't help thinking we refer to what we've read as much as what we've heard.
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Re: Brian Wilson vs Paul McCartney 62-67

Postby jimboo » 07 Dec 2014, 18:26

Well from what i hear.....Macca.
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Re: Brian Wilson vs Paul McCartney 62-67

Postby GoogaMooga » 07 Dec 2014, 18:30

Rootie Tootie wrote:I'm more interested in what goes through people's minds when they vote, than any kind of 'measuring' of these two men's talents.

There's been so much pseudo-academic talk over the years about their musical abilities that I can't help thinking we refer to what we've read as much as what we've heard.


no received wisdom here, simply a knee jerk vote
if i were to go by what's been written, shouldn't my vote automatically have gone to mccartney
his best work was done in collaboration, though the abbey road suite is quite a singular achievement
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Re: Brian Wilson vs Paul McCartney 62-67

Postby Canis lupus » 07 Dec 2014, 20:59

Rootie Tootie wrote:I'm more interested in what goes through people's minds when they vote, than any kind of 'measuring' of these two men's talents.


Well, I haven't voted yet, cos it's a toughie.

On one hand, you've half of the world's biggest songwriting partnership practically re-inventing the popular music boundaries (esp. 65 - 67) - in terms of genre referral, arrangement, instrumentation / sonic development. Having said that, he was aided and abetted not only by Lennon and the others, but also by stable management and the massed experts at Abbey Road. Their interactions / ideas were of key importance (as were his studious vetting / assimilation of the competition and key musicians at the time). He had the relative luxury to flourish.

Wilson was (largely) on his own*, and had the bear the brunt of deploying his craft accordingly. Terrorised by his dad, he may have had encouragement from his brothers (and perhaps the likes of Hal Blaine), but there was no musical collaboration (songwriting) to speak of from within his camp to nurture and cultivate his natural gifts.
Most support was to be found externally (and prone to ridicule by his jealous cousin).
His musical output up to and including SMiLE (criminally left unfinished) is especially astounding, with all the travails considered. Probably edges it for me (but still pondering this)...

*=I'm far more of a Fabs authority, than a BBs one. Happy to stand corrected here

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Re: Brian Wilson vs Paul McCartney 62-67

Postby Matt Wilson » 07 Dec 2014, 21:07

Wilson's accomplishments were tremendous. He was the producer, arranger, one of the main singers and chief songwriter of a band who could practically go toe-to-toe with the Beatles - the greatest group of that or any era - for three-to-four years. And that's when the Beatles were in their prime. Since Revolver seems to be the consensus choice lately as the best Beatles LP, and Pet Sounds is pretty much just as good (some would say better), one could easily put Wilson's achievements above Paulie's.

And yet... my gut tells me it's McCartney. His songs were simply more universal, his voice every bit as good, his musicianship (on the same instrument, no less) superior, and oh, did I mention he was one of the chief songwriters of the greatest group of all time? His best songs aren't tied to surfing or Southern California and his glory days didn't end in 1967.

So there ya have it.

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Re: Brian Wilson vs Paul McCartney 62-67

Postby Canis lupus » 07 Dec 2014, 22:16

Matt Wilson wrote:His best songs aren't tied to surfing or Southern California

Neither are Brian's, Matt (e.g.):

"...roll, roll Plymouth Rock rollover
Bicycle rider, see see what you've done,
To the church of the American Indian ..."

"She belongs there, left with her liberty
Never known as a non believer
She laughs and stays in the
Won-won-wonderful..."

"Light the lamp and fire mellow
Cabinessence timely hello
Welcomes the time for a change
Lost and found, you still remain there
You'll find a meadow filled with grain there
I'll give you a home on the range
Who ran the iron horse..."



Matt Wilson wrote: his glory days didn't end in 1967.


hence the 5 year period stated in the matcher, Matt :roll:

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Re: Brian Wilson vs Paul McCartney 62-67

Postby Canis lupus » 07 Dec 2014, 22:20

Matt Wilson wrote:his musicianship (on the same instrument, no less) superior


...singular? You mean the bass, or the piano?

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Re: Brian Wilson vs Paul McCartney 62-67

Postby Matt Wilson » 07 Dec 2014, 22:37

The bass, son, the bass.

And uh, you know Wilson didn't write the lyrics you quoted, right?

:roll:

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Re: Brian Wilson vs Paul McCartney 62-67

Postby Canis lupus » 07 Dec 2014, 23:04

Matt Wilson wrote:The bass, son, the bass.

And uh, you know Wilson didn't write the lyrics you quoted, right?

:roll:


Carol Kaye played the bass, Matt

:lol:

...well, he wrote the lyrics to Wonderful (didn't he), at least? As if Macca wrote all of his words :roll:

My point was that Wilson's best songs aren't about surfing or California (whether or not he wrote the words). Good Vibrations is more universal than that (no)?

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Re: Brian Wilson vs Paul McCartney 62-67

Postby Matt Wilson » 07 Dec 2014, 23:20

Carol Kaye played the bass on some Beach Boys songs or course, but not every Beach Boys song! He certainly played the bass in concert. And since Paul plays bass too a BB fan of even a modicum of intelligence knows what I mean when I say they played the same instrument. You needed it explained to you and I was glad to do it.

You say Brian's best songs weren't surf or So Cal-oriented and then as an example you quote some Van Dyke Parks lyrics which Brian had absolutely nothing to do with. Come to think of it, you start a thread asking who was the more "gifted" or "important" musician and then roll your eyes when an opinion which you don't share comes your way.

I thought only Coan pulled shit like that!

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Re: Brian Wilson vs Paul McCartney 62-67

Postby MALLETT » 08 Dec 2014, 00:02

Matt Wilson, ladies and gentlemen :lol:
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Re: Brian Wilson vs Paul McCartney 62-67

Postby Matt Wilson » 08 Dec 2014, 00:08

And John Coan, folks!

And you do pull shit like that John - all the time.

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Re: Brian Wilson vs Paul McCartney 62-67

Postby MALLETT » 08 Dec 2014, 00:09

Whatever you say, Matt.

Whatever you say.
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Re: Brian Wilson vs Paul McCartney 62-67

Postby toomanyhatz » 08 Dec 2014, 01:35

The answer to this question is: June 14th, 1965. "Yesterday," "I've Just Seen a Face" and "I'm Down" were all recorded that day.

Brian's total dominance of the studio counts for a lot - Brian would have been great without any of the Beach Boys, and one of Paul's greatest skills was being a foil for John - but as an all-around talent, Brian has nothing to match that. I think he'd even admit that it's true.
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Re: Brian Wilson vs Paul McCartney 62-67

Postby Quaco » 08 Dec 2014, 03:08

Some good arguments so far. Impossible for me to say.
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Re: Brian Wilson vs Paul McCartney 62-67

Postby Canis lupus » 08 Dec 2014, 09:38

Matt Wilson wrote:Carol Kaye played the bass on some Beach Boys songs or course, but not every Beach Boys song! He certainly played the bass in concert. And since Paul plays bass too a BB fan of even a modicum of intelligence knows what I mean when I say they played the same instrument. You needed it explained to you and I was glad to do it.

You say Brian's best songs weren't surf or So Cal-oriented and then as an example you quote some Van Dyke Parks lyrics which Brian had absolutely nothing to do with. Come to think of it, you start a thread asking who was the more "gifted" or "important" musician and then roll your eyes when an opinion which you don't share comes your way.

I thought only Coan pulled shit like that!


...what a load of cynical, sour-faced bollocks.
You used to enjoy a banter and a joke, Matt. Meantime - why fucking bother beginning to respond to the likes of this?
Enough