BCB 130 - The Fall

[Pool Hall Richard]

your favourite album? Extricate, just love it. Very shall we say, polished, but no bad thing and it has some classics on it, Bill Is Dead, British People In Hot Weather, Hilary, I'm Frank (a tribute to Zappa nonetheless!) Chicago Now, Telephone Thing, great album.

your favourite track? How the hell do you answer this? I don't know. I'm go for Bill Is Dead.



have you seen them live? how were they? Saw them roughly half a dozen times in the early 90's, 91-95 I think. Last show was when Brix returned, awful pissed gig in London. Soon after the classic line-up Hanley/Scanlon quit/were sacked. Kind of got off the bus after that.

your favourite MES story? The comment about Smith and yer Granny is enough to make it The Fall.

[Deebank]

And nobody's mentioned 'The Classical' yet, which often gets mentioned as the best Fall track EVER:



(goosebump moment: 0:36, when the second guitar comes in)

Driving Hanley/Hanley/Burns rhythm section in utterly heroic form on this too.

I was thinking about this track earlier, the line "Where are the obligatory niggers?" is gratuitously 'shocking' even by the standards of the time. The intent is racist by today's standards certainly (ie all shit music and dancing on TOTP etc was black, or something like that - a view I don't think MES actually held), but it's difficult to know what he was actually getting at and I don't think he's ever been forthcoming on the subject. Stopped them getting signed to A&M allegedly.

That and the "Hey there fuck face" lines mean I usually have to skip past it which is a shame because my drumming-mad daughter would love the two-man poly-rythms on it.

Forgot this earlier.

Best track: The Man WHose Head Expanded (LP version)
Best LP: The Unutterable

[naughty boy]

the line "Where are the obligatory niggers?" is gratuitously 'shocking' even by the standards of the time. The intent is racist by today's standards certainly (ie all shit music and dancing on TOTP etc was black, or something like that - a view I don't think MES actually held), but it's difficult to know what he was actually getting at and I don't think he's ever been forthcoming on the subject. Stopped them getting signed to A&M allegedly.

I heard it was Motown!

[Goat Boy]

That's not my interpetation of the line. On one level it's designed to purely offend but in the context of the song it could be used to describe any artist and the relationship with their record label.

[Deebank]

the line "Where are the obligatory niggers?" is gratuitously 'shocking' even by the standards of the time. The intent is racist by today's standards certainly (ie all shit music and dancing on TOTP etc was black, or something like that - a view I don't think MES actually held), but it's difficult to know what he was actually getting at and I don't think he's ever been forthcoming on the subject. Stopped them getting signed to A&M allegedly.

I heard it was Motown!

Maybe, although the Miles Copeland link was certainly with A&M.
He had a history of making money selling acts on his own indie labels or that he managed on to A&M
Up until Dragnet The Fall were on Copeland's Step Forward label. I don't know if the relationship continued after that though.

[Deebank]

Isn't there a line in a Fall track about 'big label Herb' (as in A&M's Alpert)?
I can remember which track, but I thought that was a reference to the The Classical debacle.

[naughty boy]

Isn't there a line in a Fall track about 'big label Herb' (as in A&M's Alpert)?
I can remember which track, but I thought that was a reference to the The Classical debacle.

It can't have been, 'cos that line's taken from a track on Grotesque, which came out a bit earlier.

In 1984, Motown Records expressed an interest in signing the band to a new UK division and asked to hear their back catalogue. Hex was the only album Smith had to hand. The letter the group received back stated "I see no commercial potential in this band whatsoever".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hex_Enduction_Hour




Here's some footage of last night's gig - you can see them being asked to come off early because of the weather. MES turns to one of the drummers and signals for them to start up anyway (with a nice bit of singing). Later, someone walks over to ask them to stop and he pushes them out of the way, to much cheering (predictably).

[youtube]bO-ClZIuXJ4&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

I mean, you know, I'm a fan and all, but isn't that great? and this is LAST NIGHT.

[Deebank]

Fair dos.
C'N'C's Mithering.
MES increasingly looks and acts like Compo from Last Of The Summer's Wine.

[toomanyhatz]

Lord knows I've tried, but I always end up unavoidably stuck in the "it all sounds the same" camp. Snarfy made me a comp once that I enjoyed, and I've always thought "Spoilt Victorian Child" was a great song.

I think I'm glad they exist, and I appreciate that they're from a whole different, non-pop tradition. If that dismissive stance resulted in something 'other' like a Beefheart or even PIL, that would be one thing. But generally it seems to mean 'no melody' as if he hasn't really advanced musically beyond the first few volumes of Pebbles.

He's a great interview subject, though - unrelentingly spiky, with a restless intelligence. You have to admire that kind of single-mindedness.

[der nister]

...if only Levi Stubbs sang with them
they could have been great

[naughty boy]

But generally it seems to mean 'no melody' as if he hasn't really advanced musically beyond the first few volumes of Pebbles.

I'm reading that kind of thing a lot here, but it wouldn't be used (as much) as a stick to hit The Ramones with, would it? Chuck Berry?

I mean, attempting diversity for the sake of it isn't necessarily a good thing, is it?

[Goat Boy]

They have a formula but there's room in that formula for variety you know. They're not the fucking ramones

[toomanyhatz]

They're not the fucking ramones

Indeed. The Ramones have hooks.

[naughty boy]

The Fall are the hookiest band I know.

[Goat Boy]

Oh they're very hooky imo.

[der nister]

they were a great band at one time
particularly up through '84/85 for me
and there is something to be said for perseverance
especially when the bandleader is the reason for said perseverance
but they've not really challenged themselves in years
and preaching to the faithful in their small neck of the woods
has kinda made them into a very insular precious situation
similar to the dead guy who wore the paper mache head

[clive gash]

the dead guy who wore the paper mache head

Paul Stanley?

[pig bodine]

I got off the bus after I am Curious Oranj, but count me as a fan of their 80's work. Hex Enduction Hour and Our Nations Saving Grace are my favorites. I liked their warped rockabilly better than the noise tracks.

Good looking guy, that Mark E. Smith.

[Snarfyguy]

After much thought, I've decided that Hex Enduction Hour remains my favorite album while my favorite song is Winter. The Peel sessions version is fantastic!

I think this one's even better!

[naughty boy]

Just finished this:



- it was very good. Recommended even to non-fans - the writing's good and it records the trials and the glories you encounter when working for/with a bad-tempered boozy egomaniac.