Frank Zappa vs. Sly Stone

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Frank Zappa
20
42%
Sly Stone
28
58%
 
Total votes: 48

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naughty boy
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Re: Frank Zappa vs. Sly Stone

Postby naughty boy » 10 Jul 2014, 13:18

Fonz wrote:Nothing against Sly, but Zappa's talent exceeds by some margin.
He made a lot of different music, with a lot of different lineups, over a longer period of time.


Actually in many ways that's sort of inarguable.

Sly had the common touch, of course, whereas Zappa didn't. And some of the latter's fans wear that as a badge of pride.


When is talent not necessarily a good thing? In pop music, quite clearly.
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Re: Frank Zappa vs. Sly Stone

Postby der nister » 10 Jul 2014, 14:14

When is talent not necessarily a good thing? In pop music, quite clearly.


indeed, some will say it never stopped the Captain,
a snake oiler possibly in both music and painting
Seven octaves, indeed
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It's kinda depressing for a music forum to be proud of not knowing musicians.

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Re: Frank Zappa vs. Sly Stone

Postby Guy E » 10 Jul 2014, 17:09

No songs at all versus a huge pile of classic, era-defining songs.
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Re: Frank Zappa vs. Sly Stone

Postby naughty boy » 10 Jul 2014, 17:23

Guy E wrote:No songs at all versus a huge pile of classic, era-defining songs.


I love you, Guy :oops:
Matt 'interesting' Wilson wrote:So I went from looking at the "I'm a Man" riff, to showing how the rave up was popular for awhile.

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Re: Frank Zappa vs. Sly Stone

Postby Guy E » 10 Jul 2014, 17:29

Would it be possible to posthumously award Frank Zappa English citizenship and simultaneously revoke his American citizenship? It might take some effort, but I'd feel a lot more comfortable with that arrangement.
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Re: Frank Zappa vs. Sly Stone

Postby Rayge » 10 Jul 2014, 17:31

Sylvester Stewart produced this gloriously crunchy piece of gonzo rock when he was about 12.

Win

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Re: Frank Zappa vs. Sly Stone

Postby GoogaMooga » 10 Jul 2014, 17:37

Guy E wrote:Would it be possible to posthumously award Frank Zappa English citizenship and simultaneously revoke his American citizenship? It might take some effort, but I'd feel a lot more comfortable with that arrangement.


vaclav havel was a big fan and bestowed on him the czech civilian award, perhaps if not uk, then the czech republic?
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Re: Frank Zappa vs. Sly Stone

Postby toomanyhatz » 10 Jul 2014, 17:38

LUV wrote:
Fonz wrote:Nothing against Sly, but Zappa's talent exceeds by some margin.
He made a lot of different music, with a lot of different lineups, over a longer period of time.


Actually in many ways that's sort of inarguable.

Sly had the common touch, of course, whereas Zappa didn't. And some of the latter's fans wear that as a badge of pride.


When is talent not necessarily a good thing? In pop music, quite clearly.


I disagree that it's inarguable. I think it's highly arguable. Zappa was better equipped to stick 121 64th notes in a bar- that I'd go with. Mastering of every form of music, an instinctive gift for how every instrument and every genre of music works, let alone a natural gift for melody that all the proper training in the world can't give you? I'd say Sly's edge there is just as inarguable.
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Re: Frank Zappa vs. Sly Stone

Postby hookfinger » 10 Jul 2014, 17:50

When I was younger and going to shows all the time, I had a buddy who was hugely into Zappa. As we lived in a small town in the midwest, every show was at least an hour and a half away. So i could drive to show, listen to what I wanted but have to stay relatively sober for the drive home. Or my buddy could drive, he didn't drink, so I could party my brains out and he would drive home but in control of the tunes. God how I learned to hate Frank Zappa.
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Re: Frank Zappa vs. Sly Stone

Postby Moleskin » 10 Jul 2014, 17:51

Guy E wrote:No songs at all versus a huge pile of classic, era-defining songs.


Nailed.
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Re: Frank Zappa vs. Sly Stone

Postby GoogaMooga » 10 Jul 2014, 17:52

no, no, two songs!

and a greasy doo wop album
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Re: Frank Zappa vs. Sly Stone

Postby der nister » 10 Jul 2014, 18:08

possibly Zappas' finest hour
I couldn't imagine a musician
handling himself with such class, wit and intelligence
during a possibly pretty dark time
for that listeners and musicians are forever in his debt
It's kinda depressing for a music forum to be proud of not knowing musicians.

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Re: Frank Zappa vs. Sly Stone

Postby Quaco » 10 Jul 2014, 18:15

True, z.

More and more, this is the Frank Zappa I am interested in, with connections to R&B, doo wop, and so-called Pachuco soul, and keeper of the flame of Southern California '50s-'60s culture. There is lots of stuff like this. This is just a sample:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

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Re: Frank Zappa vs. Sly Stone

Postby toomanyhatz » 10 Jul 2014, 18:16

I respect him
For that too
But tellingly
His greatest moments
Have little to do
Directly at least
With music
Footy wrote:
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Re: Frank Zappa vs. Sly Stone

Postby Guy E » 10 Jul 2014, 19:29

hookfinger wrote:When I was younger and going to shows all the time, I had a buddy who was hugely into Zappa. As we lived in a small town in the midwest, every show was at least an hour and a half away. So i could drive to show, listen to what I wanted but have to stay relatively sober for the drive home. Or my buddy could drive, he didn't drink, so I could party my brains out and he would drive home but in control of the tunes. God how I learned to hate Frank Zappa.

My high school experience was similar. I didn't have a car and my parents' car didn't have an 8-track player. My friends who had cars had 8-tracks, but they didn't have very big collections of tapes. So... Jethro Tull and Frank Zappa albums that were amongst their 12 or 15 8-tracks got played over and over and over. I wasn't too fond of either artist to begin with, but overexposure permanently sullied my opinion.

The fact that Ian and Frankie both give good interviews is besides the point.
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Re: Frank Zappa vs. Sly Stone

Postby Fonz » 10 Jul 2014, 19:48

I suspect many folks' disregard for FZ comes from exposure to Overnight Sensation and/or Valley Girls, and not a lot else. Fair enough. That stuff made the mainstream. Got FZ 'known' for 'Titties and Beer' and 'Dynamo Hum'. But FZ's work is far more diverse, and f there really is nothing amongst the approximately 100 official releases that you could bear to listen to...or even compare to Sly's handful of songs/albums I think there's a perverse negative snobbery at play.
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Re: Frank Zappa vs. Sly Stone

Postby toomanyhatz » 10 Jul 2014, 19:56

Fonz wrote:I suspect many folks' disregard for FZ comes from exposure to Overnight Sensation and/or Valley Girls, and not a lot else. Fair enough. That stuff made the mainstream. Got FZ 'known' for 'Titties and Beer' and 'Dynamo Hum'. But FZ's work is far more diverse, and f there really is nothing amongst the approximately 100 official releases that you could bear to listen to...or even compare to Sly's handful of songs/albums I think there's a perverse negative snobbery at play.


Well, at times that's part of the problem for me- particularly late in life he felt the need to release it every time he scratched his ass. I mean, how many official releases does anybody need? I mean unless it's somebody like the Dead where if you're a fan you're likely obsessive.

As for 'perverse negative snobbery,' nothing of the kind (in my case, anyway). I love We're Only In It For The Money and about half of Freak Out- but neither of them give me 1/10th of the pleasure of an average Sly album. And I've looked at it from every angle- felt that way as a kid just getting into music, felt that way no matter how hard I intellectualized it. Yep- mentally, physically and emotionally. He just does more for me.

And I've never heard Overnight Sensation in full, to my knowledge. And I like "Valley Girl" and don't think it's out of line with his normal style- he started out doing novelty stuff, after all.
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Re: Frank Zappa vs. Sly Stone

Postby Guy E » 10 Jul 2014, 20:27

Fonz wrote:I suspect many folks' disregard for FZ comes from exposure to Overnight Sensation and/or Valley Girls, and not a lot else. Fair enough. That stuff made the mainstream. Got FZ 'known' for 'Titties and Beer' and 'Dynamo Hum'. But FZ's work is far more diverse, and f there really is nothing amongst the approximately 100 official releases that you could bear to listen to...or even compare to Sly's handful of songs/albums I think there's a perverse negative snobbery at play.

No, I've heard plenty of Zappa's albums. I was at the Chicago premier of 200 Motels (peer pressure is to blame). His mostly instrumental jazz-groove albums are tolerable - Hot Rats, Grand Wazoo - but as soon as he opens his Mr. Clever mouth and unsheathes his musical genius moves, I gag.
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Re: Frank Zappa vs. Sly Stone

Postby Muskrat » 10 Jul 2014, 20:58

Listening to Sirius/XM's "Outlaw Country" station last night, between shows when they played "Black Napkins," a FZ blues instrumental I'd never heard. Really nice, in an after-hours jam kind of way.


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Re: Frank Zappa vs. Sly Stone

Postby 12stringbassist » 13 Jul 2014, 09:41

Heard and own lots of Zappa. Heard bits of Sly. My vote went to FZ.
The world was holding its breath waiting for me to post that, obviously......


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